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[lilitalienboi16]

My friend asked me this today he said

"So I was reading today that Jesus told Judas to betray him, does this mean Jesus betrayed God?"

I remember reading part of an article ray wrote somewhere on his site that the WORLD betrayed Jesus, i can't find that article or the section of an article were i read that, could someone lead me to it please it would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps it was mikes site..

God bless,

Alex

[eutychus]

My friend asked me this today he said

"So I was reading today that Jesus told Judas to betray him, does this mean Jesus betrayed God?"

I remember reading part of an article ray wrote somewhere on his site that the WORLD betrayed Jesus, i can't find that article or the section of an article were i read that, could someone lead me to it please it would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps it was mikes site..

God bless,

Alex

ps. i cant find that from ray either??? but sounds right.


maybe this? http://www.*not-allowed*.com/offended.html

Jhn 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.







alex,
greetings,
Jesus did not betray the Father, they are one.

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that (((all things)))) must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.


Psa 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up [his] heel against me.


Zec 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give [me] my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty [pieces] of silver.


Mat 26:15 And said [unto them], What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver



peace
chuckt

[jennie]

Hey Ya'll! I just got back into town and there wasn't television where we were. My daughter was telling me about something she saw on t.v. while we were gone about some kind of ancient manuscripts that had been found that detailed the "fake crucifixion" of Jesus. If ya'll have heard anything on this. please let me know. It is supposed to be on television on one of the news channels. Thanks for your help, Jennie

[eutychus]

Hey Ya'll! I just got back into town and there wasn't television where we were. My daughter was telling me about something she saw on t.v. while we were gone about some kind of ancient manuscripts that had been found that detailed the "fake crucifixion" of Jesus. If ya'll have heard anything on this. please let me know. It is supposed to be on television on one of the news channels. Thanks for your help, Jennie

i saw it it it made me laugh.

it was on pbs.

here is a true enemy of the cross.

bragging about a document he knows exsist by hearsay, but dosent think it will ever be found.

chuckt

[jennie]

Thanks for the info. Is it going to come on again? I'd like to watch.

[hillsbororiver]

Everything I have ever seen on network TV, Discovery Channel, A & E, The History Channel, etc. about Jesus, Moses, Mary, The Apostles is flat out wrong, the Da Vinci Code stuff is being treated like the tablets given to Moses.

It is readily apparent that the motive is to dispute sometimes subtly sometimes blatantly the Word of God, and to throw into question the sacrifice of Jesus and sometimes even His existence, whether He really was born, had a ministry and died on the cross. The Romans were meticulous record keepers and His death is recorded in the Roman secular record.

So many of these shows also go into great detail "explaining" how all the miracles recorded in the OT were actually natural occurances or trickery.

Jesus told the disciples at the last supper that one of the twelve would betray Him, (Judas had already met with the Chief Priests prior to the supper).

Mat 26:21  And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

Mat 26:25  Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

Jesus knew what was going to happen as did Judas. Although we know that all things happen according to God's purpose Jesus did not plot being betrayed with Judas nor did He give him explicit orders to do it.

Joe

[rvhill]

Revelation 11
The Two Witnesses
    1I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

    7Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.  9For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial.  10The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.  

    11But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

[vonmarschall]

What about the angle that there were something like 82 different Gospels, and Constantine the Great picked and chose which ones would make the Bible, changed Christ from a mortal man to God himself in an effort to maintain political control due to rising tensions between the Pagans and Christians?

This would explain some of the merging of the religions.  Easter, Yule, etc.....  It is obvious that there was some intentional merger or effort to overwrite the Pagan holidays and make it as painless as possible.  We still put up Christmas trees, make easter eggs, etc...  All of these are traditions of the original Pagan holidays.

I am not saying I believe in a mass conspiracy.  It is a matter of faith, but there is a lot of historical evidence saying the Bible is nothing more than a book designed specifically to use what met an agenda, discard what did not and produced a consistent means of control.  Even the author of the Da Vinci Code claims to be a Christian.

Again, I am not saying I believe this.  But.... What if?  What is Jesus was a great leader, righteous and an amazing prophet teaching us how to live yet still a man?

Pardon me if I offend anyone.  I tend to look at things from all angles.  I am a Christian but I question everything and tend to try and find the truth for myself.  That may be arrogant, but unfortunately that is the way I was created by God.  I like to believe Christ was God.

I am big on conspiracy theories, and religion in general scares me mostly due to the fact that most people step into it with blind obedience.  I  think what this site is all about is fantastic!  It is a site that THINKS for itself.

When it comes down to it, anything is possible.  We really won't know until we die although I have made it my life's quest to know all I can while I am still living.  We could all be wrong and we could all be right.  I read a series of books called Conversations with God by Neil Walsh.  Now again it is an interesting perspective on God, but what can a person believe?  Can there not be a modern day prophet?  Is it not possible?  Prophets of old were mocked too. Look at what Jesus went through!   I believe God personally speaks to us every day.  Not necessarily in words, but when you pay attention, signs are all around us.  You just have to pay attention.  I pay attention and listen to these signs, and yes I have had signs about Jesus as God.  I also believe your inner highest voice you might call your conscience is God speaking to you.  Unfortunately we often do not listen to it.  I have also had bad omens and feelings that I believe are from the adversary.

God is not invisible.  He is active and is with us all of the time.  All we have to do is open our eyes to see, pay attention, and open our hearts to God and that communion with the Divine that is God the Almighty.

One certainty in my opinion?  There IS ONE GOD and he is a LOVING GOD.  And you can take that to the bank.  This I question not at all.  And maybe that is all that matters.  Unfortunately that is not enough for me.  I have an obsessive desire to know the truth, and I am sure I will die not knowing it all.  But it sure is fun trying and what a worth-while way to spend your time.  Focus on God.

I trust God.  I have total faith in God.  I may question doctrine, scripture and religion in general, but my faith in God is unshakable.  He can do what he wishes with me and I submit totally willingly.  God has always taken care of me in so many ways.  My life is not perfect.  I suffer often.  I still sin, but that trust I have given God has brought many rewards.  God is at the wheel and I am just along for the ride.  All Glory to God!  I am nothing without God.

God bless!

[orion77]

I hear ya, Vonmarschall.  Religion is a four-letter word in my book.  Mainstream christianity does not worship God in "spirit and truth", and this is what God is looking for in us.

One must understand that there are many called and few chosen.  Many shall come in the last days and profess that Jesus is the Christ and shall deceive many.  So, nowadays, just who is the many?

Not sure if you have read all the articles on Rays and Mikes sites, but it will be worth your time.  God rewards those who diligently seek Him.

God bless,

Gary

[lilitalienboi16]

Hehe vonmarschall, i feel teh same exact way. However i know for 100% in my heart that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior.

Did you know even historiens concede to the fact that the only understandable and logical explanation for the reason Christianity spread so much after Jesus died, and didn't just die off after a few years or decades is probably because Jesus Christ really did ressurect. All the disciples taught this, saul was converted miraculous and he was one of the worste persecutors of the Christians, and the fact that he was changed in less then 30 seconds on the way to persecute the Christians is unbalievable. I find it funny that the HIstorians will concede to this, yet still try and find any other way first to disprove Christianity and its miracles.

Anyway God bless! May all the praise be to Him!

[vonmarschall]

You all are great.  I appreciate your openness.  All points are valid.  And yes I do agree.  How did Christianity last so long?  The fact that Christ was the son of God could certainly be the reason why it has lasted so long.

What do people think about the whole Holy Grail thing being Mary Magdelin?  I know the Da Vinci Code is a fictional book, but it is based on a lot of historical texts.  I think the fictional  characters do represent the results of the research by the author.

Chris

[orion77]

Chris, there are many upon many books wrote that can sway one from searching Gods own word.  This is what I would rather rely on.  There was a time where I would read many of these kinds of books, but seemed to only bring confusion.

The promoters spend lots of money to get their books into the limelight, to hook us into spending our hard earned money to buy their books.  Nowadays it is being focused on religion...like I said, to me religion is a four letter word, so I stay away from those things and let the carnally minded fight it out amongst themselves.

God bless,

Gary

[vonmarschall]

I do notice latey that there is a ton of movies/shows on religions. Especially Christianity.  There are two categories.  #1 tries to debunk Christ and the Bible.  #2 Focuses on Hell and Damnation if you are not saved.

It is almost as if the two agendas are at war.  Fighting for power.  The bottom line is they are both wrong in my opinion.  Very few understand at all.  I mean I LOVE the movie Constantine, and I love the whole battle between good and evil theme in movies, but to me this is fantasy.  (The Hell Part)  I don't believe God would torture us in that way at all.

So we have two situations here.

1.  Those trying to steer us away from Christ.
2.  Those trying to keep us true to Christ through fear.

It is so bad that we have resorted to this effort.  If you bring people to Christ out of fear, you are giving power to Satan's agenda.  You don't teach submission and a true willingness to be more like Christ.  These converts fear a fictional angry God that says "do this or burn."

Grrrrr it is frustrating.

I seek God because I want to know God.  I want to submit although I still have selfish agendas.  I try my best, and I want to improve.  Not out of fear, but out of a true desire to love and respect God.

Chris