Crucifying Christ

[hillsbororiver]

While I was away I was contemplating the crucifixion of our Lord and what I saw was that all (believers) have taken part in this. Remember when the people were given the chance to spare the life of Jesus? I see this as representative of us seeking His Spirit to overcome the natural man/beast within us.

The other prisoner was Barabbas the murderer, could he represent the natural, murdering, hateful heart possessed by the natural man, the one whose wound is healed when we lose our first love? Did not the Jews also love Him earlier when He was working miracles for them and they thought He would be the earthly, worldly messiah they hoped for?

Didn't the rejection of Jesus (by the people) give new life to Barabbas (his release)?

I remember when in years past whether I was in or out of some church (mostly out) I really believed that I would not have been one who would have shouted "Crucify Him" it is only recently that I have realized that I have shouted that in my carnal spirit numerous times in my life, it is a very humbling realization.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe     

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Joe,

  Wow.  That was a powerful post.  Yes, we all drove the nails as well, yet our Savior held his arms out to be nailed.

  It is quite a humbling experience.

  Thanks for sharing this with us.

  May God bless You as much as you have blessed Me.

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Joe

.....after reading your post.....I  read the following.

Psalm 32 : 5 I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I did not hide. I said, I will confess my transgressions to the Lord, continually unfolding the past till all is told - then You instantly forgave me the guilt and iniquity of my sin.

2 Cor 3 : 16-18 But whenever a person turns in repentance to the Lord, the veil is stripped off and taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty, emancipation from bondage, freedom. 18 And all of us, as with unveiled face, because we continued to behold in the Word of God, as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are constantly being transfigured into His very own image in ever increasing splendor and from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord Who is the Spirit.

What comes up for me is that you can not have repentance if you do not have sin, can you?  Will not sin cease and fail and mercy will surpass it, increase the more and superabound. Rom 5 : 20

Could being saved mean being made able to sin no more?

Peace to you

Arcturus

[ciy]

Joe

I think when God gives the eyes to see scripture as you are seeing it iis when he is leading you on that spiritual journey into the deeper truths of God.  I love it and am glad you posted this.
CIY

[hillsbororiver]

Anne, Arcturus & Ciy,

Thank you for the responses and your input. I definitely see being "saved" when it happens at the resurrection will mean we are finally totally free from the pull of the flesh.

This pattern of being led out of captivity, of spiritual hope kindled within us only to have our base nature overcome as we lust for earthly things, the realization of our fall and the repentance in our hearts and bitterness in our stomachs as he suppliments our spirits with His Divine Grace, the prodigal son returns.

This scripture from Zechariah came to mind;

Zec 12:10  And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

I remember how many of the denominations and the serial authors of "prophecy" books use this verse as proof of physical Israel's conversion in this age, this I believe applies to the called and chosen who realize they had left their first love, gave life to the beast within and bitterly repented when His Spirit opened their eyes to His chastising grace.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe   

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Joe,

  I had never looked at that verse as it being Us, I had always heard it appilied to Israel.  I wonder how many other verses apply to us, that they thought would apply to Israel.  That is rather interesting.

  I am wondering why mainstream denominalationism<sic> needs to have Israel converted.  What are your ideas on this.  I also woner why MD needs not to focus on that we all crucified Jesus.  I have not heard that often preached about when I was attending mainstream churches.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

[hillsbororiver]

Good morning Anne,

It was about a year ago after rereading one of Ray's articles in regard to the OT Prophets that it became quite clear that the trials and tribulations of the "men of old" was the physical journey of them and the spiritual journey of His called and chosen.

Jas 5:10  Take my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

As for the MD's don't they pretty much see everything through physical/carnal eyes? The Lord has still seen fit to hide the spiritual meanings from them.

Mat 13:10  And the disciples came and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

Mat 13:11  He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Joe,

  It is quite a lovely thing and a great blessing to be called out of the MD's.  Thanks for posting so quickly.  I am blessed to begin to being able to discern the spiritual vs. the physical.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Anne

You wrote : I am blessed to begin to being able to discern the spiritual vs. the physical.

That comment blesses me because for me this shows recognition and appreciation for the Spirit of Christ present in the Forum! Thank you....He is with us!....our Shepherd King!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[hillsbororiver]

we all drove the nails as well, yet our Savior held his arms out to be nailed.


 

Hello Anne,

Who do you believe is more accountable for the crucifixion, the unbelieving Roman soldiers or the religious leaders and the crowd of onlookers which included many former followers of Jesus?

Weren't the soldiers only following orders to put to death some guy who the authorities claimed was trying usurp the power of Rome? They were the unbelievers, the uncalled, most of the crowd (the called) knew of Jesus and His miracles, His message of love for your brethren and love of God for His people. The leaders hated Jesus because they were fearful of their own power and authority (not to mention riches) being diminished by this radical Man, the people hated Jesus because His (spiritual) Kingdom is (was, will be) not of this world, not of this earthly realm of worldly power and material things.

Even the apostles, those chosen by the Lord turned their back on Him in the darkest hour, not like Judas who was also seeking an earthly messiah but the rest of the apostles abandoned Him because they still had a timid and immature spirit, afraid yet for their own lives. Of course those chosen by the Lord were given His Spirit at Pentecost and they became fearless in obeying and living His Word, spreading the gospel as they were commanded without regard to their earthly lives or comforts.

Aren't many in the denominations (especially the leadership) living this out presently, they are making noises about Jesus but reject His spiritual Kingdom for an earthly one, the prayers for gain or victory over their enemies, the prosperity gospel, the building projects, etc. are given a higher priority than His Spirit within us.

I found the crucifixion another incredible scriptural microcosm of all the churches and the world through all the ages encompassed in this ultimate act of love by our Lord and Saviour.

How deep is the Mind of God and how many layers of Truth is His Word, what an amazing journey He has us on as we seek the treasure of His Kingdom.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[longhorn]

Great post Joe.   

Longhorn.

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Joe,

  When I look back on all the injustices of history, excluding the crucifixion for now, I see many bad things and many atrocities.  When I look back over my own life and see decisions that I have made that have had bad consequences, I shudder.  I guess that I feel badly, that I would have such a detrimental effect on others and people in my life as well as on others that I do not know.  I wonder how anything good come out of this.  Without looking at the crucifixion, I would really get sad.  But then looking at it, I see people who were obeying orders and those that were actively involved, and I see beauty in it.  Becuase I know how the rest of the story goes so to speak.

  Perhaps that is the way with the rest of the world and all the atrocities that are going on.  When I see those in light of the Crucifixion, I can rejoice and truly give thanks.

  As to who is more accountable, I am not sure if there is a right answer. 

  "I found the crucifixion another incredible scriptural microcosm of all the churches and the world through all the ages encompassed in this ultimate act of love by our Lord and Saviour."

  This was a beautiful statement.

  I am so glad that the Scripture is many layers thick, becuase I love knowing that I can read the same passage over and over and always learn something new.  I love my walk with God.

  Thanks so much for you reply, this certainly is meat to chew on.  I am so happy that I have now branched into some of the deeper conversations.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire
 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Joe

This stands out for me where you say :

......the apostles abandoned Him because they still had a timid and immature spirit, afraid yet for their own lives. Of course those chosen by the Lord were given His Spirit at Pentecost and they became fearless in obeying and living His Word, spreading the gospel as they were commanded without regard to their earthly lives or comforts.....


....this is a very important point. In fact one that is challenging me in multiple ways. Only God knows our break points. Who among us can say we are like Job....faithful to the point of death and destruction of our earthly realm? Job's life was taken and returned to him physically in earthly abundance greater than the one he knew and lost. Saul's life was also taken or terminated as he knew it before his road experience to Damascus and Saul was given a new life  as Paul Spiritually. Jesus laid down His life and took it up again powerfully. Who among us has the power to lay down their life and take it up again? Only Christ who is the God of the OT and our Saviour in the NT.  We can not trust ourselves. All power and authority is His. We can trust Him with our lives.

Your post made some very good points and shared new insights  for me, especially your comment : Weren't the soldiers only following orders to put to death some guy who the authorities claimed was trying usurp the power of Rome? They were the unbelievers, the uncalled, .....

Peace to you

Arcturus 

[YellowStone]

Arcturus wrote:

....this is a very important point. In fact one that is challenging me in multiple ways. Only God knows our break points. Who among us can say we are like Job....faithful to the point of death and destruction of our earthly realm? Job's

This a very good question Arcturus, for who can truly know just how far they would go when death is staring one in the face.

Last night on Extreme House Make-Over, there was a guy who had went down to help save to policemen during 911. This guy, knew that he might not come out alive, but he stayed with these two trapped men until they were rescued. He said, knowing that he a lovely wife and young family that he could not walk away, and he stayed, comforting them and offering words of encouragement until help arrived.

That God was watching over this man and the two others is undeniable; however, I do not know if he was a believer in God or not. Even so, this man put his life on the line in a very impressive way and I would like to think, given the chance, that I would do the same. But as you say Arcturus, only God knows.

Great post!

Love,
Darren

[Deborah-Leigh]

Over twenty years ago during a time when there were no laws against owning whatever number of fire arms you desired,  two men on the streets of Johannesburg South Africa, went into a major disagreement. The one pulled out his gun and pointed it point blank at the other. My husband saw this outburst and so he stepped in to stand infront of the unarmed man. Both men were complete strangers to him and he got shot through the chest.

He died because the doctor could not get to him in time to save him from drowning in his own blood that filled up his lungs. I was furious! How dare he!.....for a stranger!.....The strangers never came to give their appologies for their behaviour that cost the life of my husband.  That does not matter. What matters is Now I know God caused my husband to step in front of a gun at point blank range. His mind may also have been in point blank range when he did it too!      I was furious and God was there! ..... I am in peace now remarried and happy like Job. .... ....Getting into Bible Truths has been like a road to Damascus. I was booted out of Christandoms Mystery Babylon and I feel like I too have a new name. I was that and now I am this!...freer and getting better all the time....and still being dragged into the recogniton and the experience that I can and it is proper always and everywhere to trust Jesus Christ with my life!.....Am I there yet....of course not! and I thank God that HE is still dragging me!

peace to you

Arcturus 

[SandyFla]

Without looking at the crucifixion, I would really get sad.  But then looking at it, I see people who were obeying orders and those that were actively involved, and I see beauty in it.  ...

While reading this thread, and especially your comment above, Anne, I had these thoughts:

I used to hate the Roman soldiers for brutally killing an innocent man. But now I see them more like the Old Testament priests who killed animals in order to offer sacrifices to atone for sins of the people. Of course, Jesus is much more than an animal. When the soldiers nailed Jesus to the cross, they were participating in God's great plan of salvation by killing the Lamb who was the ultimate sacrifice for the sins of all people for all time. In essence, they were the final "priests" to offer

So then I wonder why Jesus asked His Father to forgive them, when they were doing what God had planned.

Sandy

[hillsbororiver]

So then I wonder why Jesus asked His Father to forgive them, when they were doing what God had planned.

Sandy

Probably because they enjoyed it, their hearts were likely very much into their work. I also believe He was speaking of forgiving the people cheering and jeering His humiliation and suffering more than the soldiers who knew next to nothing about Him and His ministry.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Sandy,

  Perhaps because Jesus knows that All fall short of the glory of God.  The more that I think upon Him asking for his Father to forgive them, I know that my name was in his heart as well.  That is quite humbling.  Joe, do you think it was universal when he uttered those words?  I would like to see what you think on that.

  Also, becuase they did not know what they were doing and what an impact it would have on the rest of history.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

[hillsbororiver]

  Joe, do you think it was universal when he uttered those words? 

Anne,

Great insight in that question, absolutely it was universal, He died for and forgave every one of us, we all have been guilty of forsaking Him, no one is guiltless without His Blood.

Earlier in this thread I shared my belief that the crucifixion event is a microcosm of the entire (relevent) history of mankind and it's redemption by Christ our Lord.

Rom 3:23  For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 3:24  Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Great post Joe.   

Longhorn.

Thank you Longhorn.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe