Correct me if I am wrong

[Phazel]

I kinda revisited the question  "What about those who have never heard of Christ"

I have never found any Christian with the ability to answer this question adequatly.

I visited several websites to get familiar again with thier answers.

The dance around the issue is utterly amazing.  They all admit that they cannot find a specific reference to this direct question.  

But they all in the end basically say (without really saying it)  that somehow God has revealed himself to them and because they did not submit and confess with thier mouth that Jesus is Savior (even tho they have never heard his name)  then they FAIL to meet the requirement to get into heaven and will  burn in hell when they die.  


I've never believed this, but never knew what to say but "well, I don't believe it".   However, now knowing that the bible does not even speak of this horrible place of hateful demented torture,  the question is EASILY answered and answered with scripture.


God is the savior of ALL men.  God desires for ALL men to be saved.  God will accomplish all he desires.

Its so simple.

[lilitalienboi16]

AMen BROTHER! OUR LORD IS AWSOME

Praise Him!

[Joey Porter]

I've never believed this, but never knew what to say but "well, I don't believe it".   However, now knowing that the bible does not even speak of this horrible place of hateful demented torture,  the question is EASILY answered and answered with scripture.

This is so right.  Once you take the idea of eternal torment out of your mind, Luke 12:47-48 is probably the only Scripture a person would need to answer this question.  Of course, there are other scriptures, too.

[Sorin]

I kinda revisited the question  "What about those who have never heard of Christ"

I have never found any Christian with the ability to answer this question adequatly.

I visited several websites to get familiar again with thier answers.

The dance around the issue is utterly amazing.  They all admit that they cannot find a specific reference to this direct question.  

But they all in the end basically say (without really saying it)  that somehow God has revealed himself to them and because they did not submit and confess with thier mouth that Jesus is Savior (even tho they have never heard his name)  then they FAIL to meet the requirement to get into heaven and will  burn in hell when they die.  


I've never believed this, but never knew what to say but "well, I don't believe it".   However, now knowing that the bible does not even speak of this horrible place of hateful demented torture,  the question is EASILY answered and answered with scripture.


God is the savior of ALL men.  God desires for ALL men to be saved.  God will accomplish all he desires.

Its so simple.

Christianity... :roll:

[ertsky]

what times are ahead for ALL

to think that every one will be included in the perfect plan of God !

no wonder it says

Rev 5:13  And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Rev 5:14  And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

WOOHOO!

but to be the Bride!

to be called chosen and faithful

no wonder Paul said

Phi 3:8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

ahhhhh let me drift into the deep

wearing the floaties of amazement

WHAT A LOVE!!!

f

when i contemplate these truths before me i almost (ALMOST) wish for more trials LOL!

2Co 4:17  For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
2Co 4:18  While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

1Pe 1:8  Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

f

[Sorin]

I've had Christians tell me that those that have never heard, well "they'll still be in Hell, but punished less severly for eternity". as if that somehow makes it fair and acceptable. :roll:  


UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jennie]

This almost sounds like the premise of the book " Dante's Inferno". It has been many years since my college days but  the premise of the book is that there are 9 different levels of hell. The levels progress from least sever punishment to most severe punishment. Sorry I don't remember much more than that.

[Phazel]

This almost sounds like the premise of the book " Dante's Inferno". It has been many years since my college days but  the premise of the book is that there are 9 different levels of hell. The levels progress from least sever punishment to most severe punishment. Sorry I don't remember much more than that.

This is just my opinion.  I think these are emotion based conclusions.  The average christian probably does not like the thought of hell and may have a feeling of real concern for those they "believe" are in hell.

To rationalize levels of Sin according to mans thinking they have to come up with stuff like this.   When we hear Sin is Sin they have a hard time wrapping thier brain around a compassionate God  torturing 10 year old Johnny forever when he died after stealing a pack of Gum from the 5 and dime and little sweet johnny hadn't made a profession of faith.

Johnny is still being punished in hell forever , but its not quite as bad.   WHAT?

If so many people didn't whole heartedly believe this stuff it might make a good comedy routine.

[rvhill]

Here is were I came from. Long ago I gave up on the ideal of a place of Fire and torment, of hell in the classical since.  Then I asked myself at what point does someone have to believe in order to be saved? The answer I found was not in this life, but the next, at judgment. So after that I believed that at Judgment all would be testified by Jesus, and those who reject the hole spirit would be casted in to the pit, true death, or outer darkness. Since I believed in free will of some type or another. I could not understand and except that all would be saved. I new of  many of the verses, but they were a mystery to me. Now I find I have different problems and mysteries I have to over come.

[Phazel]

Here is were I came from. Long ago I gave up on the ideal of a place of Fire and torment, of hell in the classical since.  Then I asked myself at what point does someone have to believe in order to be saved? The answer I found was not in this life, but the next, at judgment. So after that I believed that at Judgment all would be testified by Jesus, and those who reject the hole spirit would be casted in to the pit, true death, or outer darkness. Since I believed in free will of some type or another. I could not understand and except that all would be saved. I new of  many of the verses, but they were a mystery to me. Now I find I have different problems and mysteries I have to over come.

I can relate to your last sentence.   But the great thing, to me anyway, is that it is now an adventure to share with others rather than hope they just listen about Jesus to avoid eternal torture.

Thats freedom...

[bobf]

I kinda revisited the question  "What about those who have never heard of Christ"

I have never found any Christian with the ability to answer this question adequatly.

Isaiah 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, [to] Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [to] Tubal, and Javan, [to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20 And they shall bring all your brethren [for] an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

[Gill]

The more 'snippets' i see of how God will use the elect to bring in the rest of humanity into His family, the more i see why Paul was inspired to say:

Phi 3:14 With the goal in view, I press on for the prize of the upward calling of God in Christ Jesus.

How many times do we look at people and their situations, or simply watch the news and just want to somehow make it all better?  Like everyone else here, i can only hope that i'll make it to the first resurrection ...long way to go for me.  I can only echo Paul again:

Phi 3:13 Brethren! I, as to myself, reckon that I have, not yet, laid hold; one thing, however,-the things behind, forgetting, and, unto the things before, eagerly reaching out,

I wish i knew more about just how God's chosen will be used in this way.

[Harryfeat]

The more 'snippets' i see of how God will use the elect to bring in the rest of humanity into His family, the more i see why Paul was inspired to say:

Phi 3:14 With the goal in view, I press on for the prize of the upward calling of God in Christ Jesus.

How many times do we look at people and their situations, or simply watch the news and just want to somehow make it all better?  Like everyone else here, i can only hope that i'll make it to the first resurrection ...long way to go for me.  I can only echo Paul again:

Phi 3:13 Brethren! I, as to myself, reckon that I have, not yet, laid hold; one thing, however,-the things behind, forgetting, and, unto the things before, eagerly reaching out,

I wish i knew more about just how God's chosen will be used in this way.

I share your views on this and agree it would be great if God wills us to be part of His elect.  However, at the end of Christ's reign and God becomes "All in All"  Will there really be any difference between the elect and the rest?

I don't really have a clue but seem to get to that same point where I have no control and should be happy with whatever God wills for me.


feat

[Gill]

Hi feat,

yes, i have days where this feels more like my life:

Rom 8:19 For, the eager outlook of creation, ardently awaiteth the revealing of the sons of God,

Which still brings its own comfort.

I agree, there's no point in wondering or rather worrying about whether we're chosen.  It's not ours to know in this age.  All that does is make us wonder things like 'well, what if i'm not chosen?  what's the point of seeking the Lord and obeying the gospel in this age? Surely i'm going to fail'. If we don't obey the gospel and endure to the end, we were not chosen ...it's really a moot question and leads to much  ](*,) .

I think it's also along the same line of questioning that many of us have before we understand the truth that God will save all, 'why give up sin if we're all going to be saved anyway?'.  It's all carnal questioning that gets us nowhere.

I don't know whether there will be a difference between the elect and the rest of humanity at the end of the ages.

[ertsky]

while i agree that it is important not to sit there with an attitude of

if i'm chosen i'm chosen if i'm not i'm not so i wont even bother

(what a wicked attitude)

i believe we should know whether we are in Christ or not maybe not immediately when we first meet Him, but eventually assurance should be ours, not that we could never fall away but that we are not reprobate

consider

Rom 8:15 for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, `Abba--Father.'
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God;

Rom 8:9 And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ--this one is not His;

the enemy will always challenge our sonship just like he challenged the Lord.

Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

i would say we need to follow Jesus' example and refute Satans lies with the word.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

and i'm sure we could find more verses than these

PLEASE IF I'VE GOT THIS WRONG, CORRECT IT

f

[bowlbyx]

I asked a man that was a bible studies teacher at the church i used to go to and he said "those who havent heard WILL BURN IN HELL", then to make it even more evil he said "ALL jews will burn in hell". i decided not to talk to him anymore, for he is insane.  i feel sorry for those attending his "all burn in hell" classes  :shock:

DaViD