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Carnal-Physical-Mental
Jackie Lee:
Anne you and your little one looks so cute together.
God Bless you.... Jackie
Deborah-Leigh:
From out of the e-mail from Ray to Robin, Ray kindly presents a sequence of scriptures for consideration from which this one verse particularly strikes me as revealed through the Concordant version:
Phi 4:12 I am aware what it is to be humbled as well as aware what it is to be superabounding. In everything and among all am I initiated, to be satisified as well as to be hungering, to be superabounding as well as to be in want."
This is very revealing. Paul says that he knows what it is to be humbled. Do we know? Do I know? Have I known? Am I finding out? NO and YES. In the past I have thought being humbled was my bad luck, bad karma, being punished, getting what I deserved, feeling like a victim,that made me defensive while blaming others all because I did not know and could not see God. God says ABSOLUTELY Isa 45 : 7 I form the light and crate darkness; I make peace, national well-being and I create physical evil, calamity; I am the Lord, Who does all these things. Isa 46 : 10 Declaring the end and the result from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure and purpose.
RELATIVE to us, the above scripture can make us do and think all sorts of stupid foolish things! :D..before we get/I got edified and shown the meanings and significance and insights of these scriptures here in BT and in Rays teachings. We know that the Church does not teach that God is Sovereign and they miss out on this Scripture!
So before I got dragged here, I too did not know that God is the potter and I am the clay. I was full of myself. The self part is not going to go away either until Jesus returns. But when I was very thick and very full of my self the world loved me. Then I got empty as God turned me on His potters wheel. I got confused, dizzy and hopeless as God drove a hole right into my self assurance with his thumbs as easy as a hot knife through butter. ;D Everything I had believed became empty. :o God made me get thinner on myself through a process that continues.... ;D
I thank God he brought me to BT. As I read Ray’s teachings I saw that God controls EVERYTHING and that it is my ignorance to blame, accuse and compare myself with other vessels that GOD is making. As I begin to see that EVERYONE is in GODS control I am starting to understand that when I get slapped down by a person it is not because God was not looking, or that I was not praying hard enough or that I< I< I< did something to earn pain or disappointment or grievances…but that it is all from GOD….not me, me, me as the Church would have me believe. It is GOD who is Sovereign…NOT ME! It is HE who knows the beginning from the end, ….not ME.
PAUL GOT! HE KNEW THIS! HE WROTE….. among all am I initiated, to be satisified as well as to be hungering, to be superabounding as well as to be in want."………..Paul was initiated with the knowledge of God’s Sovereignty. Paul was satisfied when hungering and superabounding in want…WHY….because he knew…Ray also knows….we are still learning! :D ;D
I still at first see the person and not the hand of God when things do not go MY way….I am getting better though :D…I still see the sickness and not the plan of God when I feel helpless for others pains and sufferings rather than seeing the love of God in action in the lives of them who are being judged now… :'( I still do not enjoy pain or sickness, loss or dismay, suffering or tauma and it is still difficult to see that these things God takes full responsibility over and it is as we who God will bring to account for how we respond! Do we hate God or know and understand Him. That is for God to decide. He is the potter and there are pots being made for God glory and God's wrath!
With Paul and Ray…Much has been given by God to them.....God has revealed Himself, removed the obscurity of veiled bllindness showing that we are NOT creatures of free will..... and WE are blessed to share in the insightful knowledge and teachings we have been placed by God's hand to receive through Ray's teachings that expose to our minds, hearts, eyes and ears, Ray's knowledge and comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God. Yes truly Christ is being written into our hearts MG. :D
Even as our brother Dwight in an another thread was caused to present...1 Peter 1 12.....It is these very things which have now already been made known plainly to you by those who preached the good news, to you by the same Holy Spirit sent from heaven . Into these things the very angels long to look! It is our eyes that see into what the angels have longed to look! We are indeed blessed beyond merit but not outside the bounds of HIS love!
When Paul was superabounding, he could still say he was in want because he was never SELF SUFFICINT. Self sufficiency is the mark of a fool. When Paul was superabounding he was at the same time in want because of his dependence on Christ that had become ceaseless and detatched from Pauls circumstantial lack or abundance. CHRIST was Pauls supply in all circumstances in prison or out of prison. Paul was initiated with Gods stamp of Sovereignty. This is a Hallmark of wisdom and Pauls comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God that his epistles bring to us in exhortation, encouragement and edification.
Proverbs 12 : 8 A man shall be commended according to his Wisdom, godly Wisdom, which is comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God,….
Ecc 3 : 14 I know that whatever God does, it endures; nothing can be added to it nor anything taken from it. And GOD DOES IT so that men will reverently fear HIM, revere and worship HIM, knowing that He IS.
Ecc 12 : 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter; Fear God, revere and worship HIM, knowing that He IS….
Paul knew it! Peter too was in Gods purpose.
1 Peter 4 : 8 Above all things have intense and unfailing love for one another, for love covers a multitude of sins, forgives and disregards the offences of others…..
In other words….see GOD in EVERYTHING! In all circumstances ups and downs…He is the potter we are on the wheel for a short time that is all!
Among others in the OT someone else got the revelation that God is sovereign….God told Habakkuk 1 : 5 Look around you, among the nations and see! And be ASTONISHED! ASTOUNDED! For I am putting into effect a work in your days such that you would not believe it if it were told you……and then God SHOWED him….
Astonished...ASTOUNDED....kind of how I felt as I read Ray's teachings.. 8) ;D :D
Then once Habakkuk got it he wrote : 3 : 17 Though the fig tree does not blossom and there is no fruit on the vines, though the product of the olive fails and the fields yield no food, though the flock is cut off from the flood and there are no cattle in the stalls, 18 YET I WILL REJOICE IN THE LORD; I WILL EXULT IN THE VICTORIOUS GOD OF MY SALVATION. 19 The Lord God is my Strength, my personal bravery, and my invincible army; he makes my feet like hinds feet and will make me to walk not to stand still in terror, but to walk and make spiritual progress upon my high places of trouble, suffering or responsibility.
God showed Habakkuk that HE is Sovereign. Paul knew it. Ray teaches it!
As we suffer and strain in the kiln of the potters fires we can look ahead to the fact that Jesus when He comes, it is He who will fill us, it is He who is our strength, personal bravery, army making our feet walk in spiritual progress upon our high places of trouble and suffering. We can look forward to HIS return with expectant hearts of joy and as Jackie Lee notes...praying by God's rules is an insightful aid in our race towards His return.
Hurry up Lord! We are looking for you with great excitement and anticipation! as we learn patience, long suffering and endurance....as You bring us to know that whether inside Your consuming fire or on the shelf of abounding supply...we still need YOU.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
rrammfcitktturjsp:
Arcturus,
There was much to respond. All your comments will be in black, and mine are in red, and in by no means is red a fiery angry color, it just shows up easier.
--- Quote from: Arcturus on February 17, 2007, 07:27:03 AM ---From out of the e-mail from Ray to Robin, Ray kindly presents a sequence of scriptures for consideration from which this one verse particularly strikes me as revealed through the Concordant version:
Phi 4:12 I am aware what it is to be humbled as well as aware what it is to be superabounding. In everything and among all am I initiated, to be satisified as well as to be hungering, to be superabounding as well as to be in want."
This is very revealing. Paul says that he knows what it is to be humbled. Do we know? Do I know? Have I known? Am I finding out? NO and YES. In the past I have thought being humbled was my bad luck, bad karma, being punished, getting what I deserved, feeling like a victim,that made me defensive while blaming others all because I did not know and could not see God. God says ABSOLUTELY Isa 45 : 7 I form the light and crate darkness; I make peace, national well-being and I create physical evil, calamity; I am the Lord, Who does all these things. Isa 46 : 10 Declaring the end and the result from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure and purpose.
RELATIVE to us, the above scripture can make us do and think all sorts of stupid foolish things! :D..before we get/I got edified and shown the meanings and significance and insights of these scriptures here in BT and in Rays teachings. We know that the Church does not teach that God is Sovereign and they miss out on this Scripture!
I too thought being humbled was the bad things that happened in my life becuase I deserved them. I am so glad that you shared this becuase well I am in the process of getting humbled as well. The more that I read on the website and the more that I learn from all of you here at the forum, I am constantly reminded and humbled that I do not have all the answers. I am glad that I can learn from others, especially those that pursue the Truth.
So before I got dragged here, I too did not know that God is the potter and I am the clay. I was full of myself. The self part is not going to go away either until Jesus returns. But when I was very thick and very full of my self the world loved me. Then I got empty as God turned me on His potters wheel. I got confused, dizzy and hopeless as God drove a hole right into my self assurance with his thumbs as easy as a hot knife through butter. ;D Everything I had believed became empty. :o God made me get thinner on myself through a process that continues.... ;D
This is the paragraph that I wanted to orginally post my reply in, but the more that I read, I knew I wanted to share some things based off of what you said. I loved this what you said, becuase it is what God is doing for me. I cannot believe that he can easily get into my self assurance and knock holes in it so easier, but when he does, it drives me to my knees and into His word. I am glad to see that it is a process that will continue, becuase I am so stubborn-headed that I do not think a couple times will be enough for me. ;D I wanted to add if I might, I would rather God be molding me, becuase if I fall or crack I am already in His hands. To me, when I read that, I was reminded I am already in His hands and he will catch me. And that has given me peace, thanks for sharing that.
I thank God he brought me to BT. As I read Ray’s teachings I saw that God controls EVERYTHING and that it is my ignorance to blame, accuse and compare myself with other vessels that GOD is making. As I begin to see that EVERYONE is in GODS control I am starting to understand that when I get slapped down by a person it is not because God was not looking, or that I was not praying hard enough or that I< I< I< did something to earn pain or disappointment or grievances…but that it is all from GOD….not me, me, me as the Church would have me believe. It is GOD who is Sovereign…NOT ME! It is HE who knows the beginning from the end, ….not ME.
Thank you , thank you, thank you. I sometimes wonder why things happen or someone hurts me. I usually fall into the guilt trip of not being there for them or not saying enough, you know that routine. I am going to post this on an index card and put it on the front door. If I could remember that God is in control I could avoid much pain and guilt in my life. This paragraph that you have written is a beautiful and eloquent statement of humility. I only pray that I too will be able to resound this as convicted as you have.
PAUL GOT! HE KNEW THIS! HE WROTE….. among all am I initiated, to be satisified as well as to be hungering, to be superabounding as well as to be in want."………..Paul was initiated with the knowledge of God’s Sovereignty. Paul was satisfied when hungering and superabounding in want…WHY….because he knew…Ray also knows….we are still learning! :D ;D
I still at first see the person and not the hand of God when things do not go MY way….I am getting better though :D…I still see the sickness and not the plan of God when I feel helpless for others pains and sufferings rather than seeing the love of God in action in the lives of them who are being judged now… :'( I still do not enjoy pain or sickness, loss or dismay, suffering or tauma and it is still difficult to see that these things God takes full responsibility over and it is as we who God will bring to account for how we respond! Do we hate God or know and understand Him. That is for God to decide. He is the potter and there are pots being made for God glory and God's wrath!
With Paul and Ray…Much has been given by God to them.....God has revealed Himself, removed the obscurity of veiled bllindness showing that we are NOT creatures of free will..... and WE are blessed to share in the insightful knowledge and teachings we have been placed by God's hand to receive through Ray's teachings that expose to our minds, hearts, eyes and ears, Ray's knowledge and comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God. Yes truly Christ is being written into our hearts MG. :D
Even as our brother Dwight in an another thread was caused to present...1 Peter 1 12.....It is these very things which have now already been made known plainly to you by those who preached the good news, to you by the same Holy Spirit sent from heaven . Into these things the very angels long to look! It is our eyes that see into what the angels have longed to look! We are indeed blessed beyond merit but not outside the bounds of HIS love!
When Paul was superabounding, he could still say he was in want because he was never SELF SUFFICINT. Self sufficiency is the mark of a fool. When Paul was superabounding he was at the same time in want because of his dependence on Christ that had become ceaseless and detatched from Pauls circumstantial lack or abundance. CHRIST was Pauls supply in all circumstances in prison or out of prison. Paul was initiated with Gods stamp of Sovereignty. This is a Hallmark of wisdom and Pauls comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God that his epistles bring to us in exhortation, encouragement and edification.
Proverbs 12 : 8 A man shall be commended according to his Wisdom, godly Wisdom, which is comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God,….
Ecc 3 : 14 I know that whatever God does, it endures; nothing can be added to it nor anything taken from it. And GOD DOES IT so that men will reverently fear HIM, revere and worship HIM, knowing that He IS.
Ecc 12 : 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter; Fear God, revere and worship HIM, knowing that He IS….
Paul knew it! Peter too was in Gods purpose.
1 Peter 4 : 8 Above all things have intense and unfailing love for one another, for love covers a multitude of sins, forgives and disregards the offences of others…..
In other words….see GOD in EVERYTHING! In all circumstances ups and downs…He is the potter we are on the wheel for a short time that is all!
Among others in the OT someone else got the revelation that God is sovereign….God told Habakkuk 1 : 5 Look around you, among the nations and see! And be ASTONISHED! ASTOUNDED! For I am putting into effect a work in your days such that you would not believe it if it were told you……and then God SHOWED him….
Astonished...ASTOUNDED....kind of how I felt as I read Ray's teachings.. 8) ;D :D
Then once Habakkuk got it he wrote : 3 : 17 Though the fig tree does not blossom and there is no fruit on the vines, though the product of the olive fails and the fields yield no food, though the flock is cut off from the flood and there are no cattle in the stalls, 18 YET I WILL REJOICE IN THE LORD; I WILL EXULT IN THE VICTORIOUS GOD OF MY SALVATION. 19 The Lord God is my Strength, my personal bravery, and my invincible army; he makes my feet like hinds feet and will make me to walk not to stand still in terror, but to walk and make spiritual progress upon my high places of trouble, suffering or responsibility.
God showed Habakkuk that HE is Sovereign. Paul knew it. Ray teaches it!
As we suffer and strain in the kiln of the potters fires we can look ahead to the fact that Jesus when He comes, it is He who will fill us, it is He who is our strength, personal bravery, army making our feet walk in spiritual progress upon our high places of trouble and suffering. We can look forward to HIS return with expectant hearts of joy and as Jackie Lee notes...praying by God's rules is an insightful aid in our race towards His return.
Hurry up Lord! We are looking for you with great excitement and anticipation! as we learn patience, long suffering and endurance....as You bring us to know that whether inside Your consuming fire or on the shelf of abounding supply...we still need YOU.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
--- End quote ---
Sister, thanks so much for posting this journey of Yours on the thread. I too am going through the fires of the kiln and it burns and it hurts. But now, I can see what the result of going through it is by looking at the Wisdom and the passion you have for the Truth. I am ready now. Thanks so much. Great post, and I cannot say how much you have blessed my life and it only being 0945 hours over here. May God bless you and yours.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
Deborah-Leigh:
Thank you Anne
MG's plight has reminded me of this scripture.
John 9 : 1-7
As He passed along, He noticed a man blind from his birth.2 His disciples asked Him, Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, the he should be born blind? ( or that we should be born carnal….)3Jesus answered, It was not that this man or his parents sinned,(…or were bringing upon themselves punishment for sin…for we have all sinned and we have all fallen short of God’s Glory…) but he was born blind in order that the workings of God should be manifested, displayed and illustrated in him. 4. We must work the works of Him Who sent Me and be busy with His business while it is daylight; night is coming on, when no man can work. 5. As long as I am in the world, I am the world’s Light.6When He had said this, He spat on the ground and made clay, mud (…this makes me think of potters clay….)with His saliva, and He spread it as ointment on the man’s eyes. 7. And He said to him, Go, wash in the Pool of Siloam – which means Sent.
MG's pain and all human suffering makes me think of what Jesus suffered on His cross. The speech arresting agony of torment and grief that disfigured His appearance, robbed Him of beauty and marred His flesh. Jesus went through this for us and our suffering shares in His suffering! We are made to go through it and like Jesus NO ONE wants to suffer. Jesus did not want to drink from the cup and God made Him. Ray points this out in his teachings on this subject.
I see human pain as a reminder to those of us less pained, that Jesus suffered pain that many of us will not ever know or share in our life times. I know that no human can say that they accept their suffering without HIS Strength.We can not will away our circumstances or imagine that we can accept pain in the place of any human being and do as good a job as Jeusus because only Jesus was the spotless sin offering. No human flesh is or can hold such a title. Yet Jesus does say that we can share in His sacrifice, carry our cross and see that our pain is a share of His own cross. For me MG fits this category as do all my brothers and sisters who recognise that their pain draws them closer to and not further away from Jesus. This is a privilage and not a guarantee. Many hate God for their sufferings.
Of course it is much easier to advise someone from standing at the foot of their suffering not being nailed to the pain they are in. Of course it is very much easier to tell Job what to do in his anguish. God was not too pleased with Job’s friends either. Being holier than thou as our passing by attempt at alleviation of another’s sorrow or suffering is not worthy to be called love yet it was Jesus who tarried when news came to him of Lazarus who was deathly ill.
MG'S pain and post stalled me....It got me thinking. In this I see MG as sent to show me that I should know it is HIM who has healed my emotions too and it is HIM who is leading me and strenghening me and blessing me and caring for me.....
Perhaps the scriptures tell us not to trivialize people’s pain, or try to adjudicate someone’s suffering but to wait….not until they die but until we know that God is in command of everything and everyone.
You hold a very important place in this Forum for me MG. Not because any one of my brothers or sisters are of lesser significance but because your pain is higher up in the rafters closest to the suffering that Jesus endured on Calvery.
Heb 4 : 15 For we do not have a High Priest Who is unable to understand and sympathize and have a shared feeling with our weaknesses and infirmities and liability to the assaults of temptation, but One Who has been tempted in every respect as we are, yet without sinning.
MG you have recognised andacknowledged His miraculous healing of your emotions….I see your flesh is uniting to His own that was crucified for our salvation…..This is how I see you MG….a reminder of His agony suffered for us all. Not to agrandise your suffering or make a display of your pain....but to draw nearer to the conclusion that God is doing with you exactly what He knows is best and what is so wonderful is that this understanding also shines through your awareness of His presence in your life.
I am not going through anything nearly like what you describe….neither was the thief that asked Jesus to remember him…………
I hope you remember me too MG
Peace be to you .......I see you too have been sent on your way to the pool of Siloam...as have we all who can say we are brothers and sisters. HE is the pool of Siloam....HE is the SENT ONE. He is coming back....
I hope this post lifts your burden just a little bit MG and all those who suffer in the hidden places of hurts and pains that are silent and unspeakable...for this reason I have written to you.
Peace be to you
Arcturus
Deborah-Leigh:
Anne
It blesses me to see His hands of holiness loosening you from your bondage...and captivity to human cruelty and false teachings.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
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