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Author Topic: Stupid website  (Read 6883 times)

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Harryfeat

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Stupid website
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2006, 05:47:51 PM »

Quote from: hillsbororiver
Does that help answer your question marks?


Hello feat,

Not all of them but it is a start, this man from tektonics has taken it upon himself to attempt to demolish Ray's writings with clever sidetracking and supposition, again, "very little scripture" is used to refute Ray, actually I do not remember any from him.


What other questions do you have?


Clever word games are his tool, for instance, can you see a difference between immortality and eternal? The tektonics guy attempts to blend them into one and the same, if you or I were to be given our new spiritual bodies today we would be given "immortality" only God is eternal, without beginning, without end. We (all creation) would always have a beginning.

I am not sure about "always having a healthy skepticism about whatever anyone interprets as the truth" as being a good road to growing in the Lord, through faith obtaining understanding, gaining the fruits of the spirit. Would you apply that to what Paul wrote or understood to be truth? Or any of the men guided by the Spirit who recorded God's Word? Do you have a healthy skepticism that Jesus walked the earth, had an earthly ministry, died for all of our sins and was resurrected?

You never answered this question. I answered this below in blue. I don't accept any man's theories without a healthy skepticism.  If you are asking me if I believe in scripture then that is a whole other matter.  But we are not talking about scripture here. We are talking about what men say and how they interpret scripture.  At least I thought that was what this thread was all about


I certainly would agree that we should "be as the Bereans" and check the witnesses, verify the scripture's quoted or referenced to make sure we are not being deceived or believing falsehoods. I had shown an example in a previous post about how some people cleverly change the order of words to promote their own ideology;

I completely disagree with you that being skeptical of what men teach and say is an unhealthy road to spiritual truth. If you blindly accept what men say then it is my opinion that you are probably mentally lazy and will end up in some sort of organized religious cult. Maybe even a catholic.

Where exactly did I say to "blindly accept what men say"?  [/b]You didn't and I didn't say you did.  I started my analogy with the word "IF" and used it to make and emphasize my point.  

Here we go with the "cult" business thrown in for good measure.
What's that supposed to mean? The point of your sarcasm escapes me.  How many have been confused and joined cults for lack of critical judgement and following without being skeptical of the source. The reality of it is frightening to me.


If you agree with we should be as the bereans then you should also understand what I mean by healthy sketpticism. I have no wish to blindly accept what someone tells me is the "truth" regardless of who it is. I would ask you about how your faith was shaped before you found BT or even began to realize what a load of crap you got from organized religion. If you had maintained a berean attitude all along, perhaps what you found at BT would not have been such a dramatic change for you.


Did I not say we should be as the Bereans? Again, I never said blindly follow anyone. The progression of my faith is documented in the Testimony section of the forum.

There is not much new at BT that the early Christian didn't believe. Check it out.

I agree emphatically that we should shed the man made add ons to the faith, I may be considered ancient by some but I was not around in the first century, it took BT (through the Spirit) to open my eyes. I wasn't around then either but it didn't prevent from studying history.  

feat, I pray you don't take this the wrong way, my motivation is to reason together, gain understanding together.

I don't think I took your original post the wrong way. If your aim was gaining an understanding together then your initial post might not have had all the markings of a lecture.



My original post was a paragraph in response to your statement about "certainly no lack of scripture" how does that qualify as a lecture? I didn't say it was a lecture but had the markings of one.  quote "all languages have been influenced by latin...." sounds like the beginnings of a lecture to me.  Is is also  my opinion that the orientals would disagree with your statement, even so.


Since I "stumbled" onto Ray and Mike's sites I am no longer looking to the outside physical, carnal world to verify what God has planned for us, their articles have shown me (through the Spirit) that the greatest miracles are taking place within me, you, and all that are called to Him. I had no clue as to what this was before, but displacing the beast within me with the Spirit of Christ has become my supreme goal, not waiting for a rapture or watching out for the European Union to produce a charismatic leader or any of the physical signs so many are looking for. Is, was & will be, within all of our lives, each generation.

This is one reason I feel so obligated to speak up when I perceive the principles of BT are being watered down or questioned, be it blatant or subtle.

I think its is appropriate to speak out. It is the manner that causes concern.


Please be specific, what is the "manner" you speak of? Joe, I am not a child and don't need to be spoken down to.  I understand that the purpose of the arcticle was to refute.  I never said I thought any of it was accurate.  Tell me what part of my post was inaccurate or in any way negative.  You took issue with a statement about there being scripture quoted but said the same thing yourself before I did.  You also left off the last half of the thought which was that it was lifted from Ray.  If you reread all the posts before mine you will see what I am talking about.

That is what I mean by  manner  what I am speaking of in this case.  



Brother, I have no animosity toward you at all, I hope you take this in the spirit it is given.

I have a lot to learn and probably need to be more careful about how I state things. I appreciate your effort to educate me. I can only assume that the your efforts were in the spirit of brotherly love.

We all need to be careful, myself included maybe especially. The written word is a two dimensional form of communication, the facial expressions, body language and tone of voice are all missing and sometimes words on paper can take on a more aggressive tone than intended.

Peace,
Joe


If you have anything else you wish to point out, I would very much appreciate it.

Please feel free to do the same with me, I learn from everyone. Thank you.

I have given my opinion on a few things but I would like to point out that I have no hidden agendas, I am not here to preach, teach or proselytize. I am here to learn.  I have already disclosed my beliefs in a response to someone named Sorin on another thread which you read so I don't plan on repeating it here.  I have  tried to be respectful  follow the rules and yet I feel like I have to tiptoe through a mine field. I find that the most disconcerting





Joe


feat
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hillsbororiver

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Stupid website
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2006, 06:51:11 PM »

I agree emphatically that we should shed the man made add ons to the faith, I may be considered ancient by some but I was not around in the first century, it took BT (through the Spirit) to open my eyes. I wasn't around then either but it didn't prevent from studying history.

LOL

Actually, I was never prevented from studying history, I just studied it with a healthy skepticism.


My original post was a paragraph in response to your statement about "certainly no lack of scripture" how does that qualify as a lecture? I didn't say it was a lecture but had the markings of one. quote "all languages have been influenced by latin...." sounds like the beginnings of a lecture to me. Is is also my opinion that the orientals would disagree with your statement, even so.


Main Entry: 1eter·nali-'t&r-n &l
Function: adjective
Pronunciation: i-'t&r-n & l
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Late Latin aeternalis, from Latin aeternus eternal, from aevum age, eternity -- more at AYE
1 a : having infinite duration : EVERLASTING b : of or relating to eternity c : characterized by abiding fellowship with God <good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? -- Mark 10:17 (Revised Standard Version)>
2 a : continued without intermission : PERPETUAL b : seemingly endless
3 archaic : INFERNAL <some eternal villain ... devised this slander -- Shakespeare>
4 : valid or existing at all times : TIMELESS <eternal verities>
- eter·nal·izei-'t&r-n&l-"īz /-n & l-"īz/ transitive verb
- eter·nal·lyi-'t&r-n&l-e /-n & l-e/ adverb
- eter·nal·ness noun

See the route this word took?  


Also, Chinese (Hong Kong speaks English as a first language) Korean, Japanese, Viet Namese, ect. have been VERY influenced by English (Latin by extension as Latin has heavily influenced English) as they integrate into the Western economy, there is no doubt that their languages have incorporated English into the vernacular.

I attached this paper (from the Cambridge Review) to give more detail on how English has influenced Oriental language (among others) throughout the world. It is an interesting read.


http://www.zuckermann.org/english.pdf

Lighten up Feat, I am not your enemy, I originally only asked you to clarify a statement you made.

Peace Brother!

Joe
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Harryfeat

  • Guest
Stupid website
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2006, 07:13:04 PM »

Quote from: hillsbororiver


Lighten up Feat, I am not your enemy, I originally only asked you to clarify a statement you made.

Peace Brother!

Joe


If only that were the case. If you had said "feat please clarify your statement, the results would have been much different.  I was going  to ask you to lighten up but thought it would be disrespectful to a moderator.

I don't consider you the enemy but had the distinct feeling that you felt that I was.  I agree with you on the two dimensionality of print and the need to be careful in our wording.  Likewise a more careful reading of what is written would also prevent some missunderstanding.

I am through with this thread.  If you have anything else to say then pm me.

blessings to you and yours,
feat
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hillsbororiver

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Stupid website
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2006, 07:40:31 PM »

Feat, you are right. I need to remember that people here only know me through what I write, and the newer members know very little. At work we use e-mail to communicate constantly and sometimes the communications are short and to the point, without knowing the person it very well could be perceived as arrogant or harsh.

I promise to be more cognizant of this in the future and I thank you for helping me to realize what I need to do and how I may be perceived.

Sincerely,

Joe
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Dan

  • Guest
Stupid website
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2006, 01:36:32 PM »

1Co 1:11  For concerning you, my brothers, it was shown to me by those of Chloe that there are strifes among you.
1Co 1:12  But I say this, that each of you says, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13  Has Christ been divided?
Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized into the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14  I give thanks to God that I did not baptize any one of you, except Crispus and Gaius,
1Co 1:15  that not anyone should say that you were baptized in my name.
1Co 1:16  And I also baptized the house of Stephanas. For the rest, I do not know if I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17  For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to announce the gospel, not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ be made of no effect.
1Co 1:18  For the Word of the cross is foolishness to those being lost, but to us being saved, it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19  For it has been written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will set aside the understanding of the understanding ones." Isa. 29:14



Remember that we are not of BT, we are not of universalism.

We are of Christ, and the Spirit uses us as tools.(I dont know , but this is what 'Feat' might have meant by healthy skepticism;
not following any person or persons.



 
Quote
it took BT (through the Spirit) to open my eyes.



this statement(to me) says BT is using the Spirit to open my eyes.


I say the Spirit uses BT to open my eyes.
(It is a big difference, because in Word or deed we put the Spirit/Christ first.)


I dont think Joe believes that BT is the first in order but all we have are words that are written to go by.(and others might misunderstand)

And sometimes you can tell what a person believes by what they write.


When I first came to Rays site I received confirmation of many things that I was already believing and wondered if there was anybody else who believed the same.

It was the Spirit who stripped me of prior beliefs and the Spirit who led me to BT. BT was another tool and a good one.


If I believe BT is what changed me, then I have become a "follower of BT"

I hope this comes across the way I intend it, (not harsh) and it makes sense to some, because I see many posts of the, "I am of BT" "I am of universalist"  type.
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Falconn003

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Stupid website
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2006, 02:25:14 PM »

OH MAN.......this guy again and his jail house gosple..

This fool is so messed up he does not know who he is at times.

James Patrick Holding is a pseudonym used by Robert Turkel

http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/2002/4/024jph.html

People just have no shame.

Rodger
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jennie

  • Guest
again!
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2006, 03:20:08 PM »

I don't understand any of this. If it is something that will help me grow in the Lord someone help me understand but if it is more of a dispute I don't need to know more. Thanks ya'll!
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rvhill

  • Guest
Re: again!
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2006, 05:03:51 PM »

Quote from: jennie
I don't understand any of this. If it is something that will help me grow in the Lord someone help me understand but if it is more of a dispute I don't need to know more. Thanks ya'll!

I agree with Jennie
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Falconn003

  • Guest
Stupid website
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2006, 07:30:04 PM »

Jennie, rvhill

Read the link i posted above, this guy gospled to the convicts and has gotten a bigger head on him then most TBN memebers.

Any how he has tried to rebutt many,,many  pepoel yet when they question his rebuttals he simply ignores the questions or changes the topic.

This guy is a big joke of vanity for himself and nothing more, time wasted on this individual is better spent watching paint dry or snails mate.  :wink:


Rodger
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Stupid website
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2006, 07:43:56 PM »

Quote from: Dan
1Co 1:11  For concerning you, my brothers, it was shown to me by those of Chloe that there are strifes among you.
1Co 1:12  But I say this, that each of you says, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13  Has Christ been divided?
Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized into the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14  I give thanks to God that I did not baptize any one of you, except Crispus and Gaius,
1Co 1:15  that not anyone should say that you were baptized in my name.
1Co 1:16  And I also baptized the house of Stephanas. For the rest, I do not know if I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17  For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to announce the gospel, not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ be made of no effect.
1Co 1:18  For the Word of the cross is foolishness to those being lost, but to us being saved, it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19  For it has been written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will set aside the understanding of the understanding ones." Isa. 29:14



Remember that we are not of BT, we are not of universalism.

We are of Christ, and the Spirit uses us as tools.(I dont know , but this is what 'Feat' might have meant by healthy skepticism;
not following any person or persons.



 
Quote
it took BT (through the Spirit) to open my eyes.



this statement(to me) says BT is using the Spirit to open my eyes.


I say the Spirit uses BT to open my eyes.
(It is a big difference, because in Word or deed we put the Spirit/Christ first.)


I dont think Joe believes that BT is the first in order but all we have are words that are written to go by.(and others might misunderstand)

And sometimes you can tell what a person believes by what they write.


When I first came to Rays site I received confirmation of many things that I was already believing and wondered if there was anybody else who believed the same.

It was the Spirit who stripped me of prior beliefs and the Spirit who led me to BT. BT was another tool and a good one.


If I believe BT is what changed me, then I have become a "follower of BT"

I hope this comes across the way I intend it, (not harsh) and it makes sense to some, because I see many posts of the, "I am of BT" "I am of universalist"  type.


Hello Dan,

It is understandable how you or someone else might interpret what I wrote as me proclaiming my allegiance to BT, and that it was BT which opened my eyes to spiritual things.

No, when I wrote "it took BT (through the Spirit) to open my eyes," I had hoped it would be understood that through the Spirit leading me to BT my spiritual eyes were opened.

I have read many people say that Ray had confirmed what they already knew through personal study but I cannot say that myself, far from it. My personal journey (documented in the Testimony section of the forum) had me going through a few churches, reading scores of "christian" books and studying the bible on my own, weeks, months, sometimes years lapsed in between attempts to gain understanding. I was looking outward, searching for "signs and wonders" becoming only confused in the    process.


I had first prayed for understanding of God's purpose for me and for the world at the age of 17 after a series of devestating experiences in my young life. He certainly put me on an incredible journey, through the next 34 years, good jobs, bad jobs, huge losses unbelievable gains, living inside and outside the law, being shot at, best friend shot and killed, being an unbending strong willed "cowboy" who would do most anything for a buck and a thrill. Being blessed with a big strong body enhanced by lifting weights even when everything else I did (drinking,drugs, etc.) was very unhealthy, especially spiritually and mentally. I was a bully an enforcer bulldozing my way through life until my mid thirties when the Lord busted this boy down to dust. I had to start all over, humbled, broken and yet optimistic that good things were on the horizen, why was I optimistic? I did not know then but the optimism was the Spirit beginning His work in me.

He has lead me from menial work (the only job anyone was willing to chance with me at the time) to a position I never dreamt possible. I went from mutually bad relationships & marriage to a loving, loyal wife, and we have been blessed beyond belief, it is only through retrospect that I am able to see the steps He guided me through to get to where I am now.

With my personal and professional life better than I ever thought possible there was still something missing, there was a big hole in my spirit a void I could not pinpoint, I KNEW there was more to this life than "things" and I would become frustrated because I could not seem to get whole, to fill the void.

The night I found BT is a night I will never forget, my wife thought I was losing my mind with all the noise coming from my upstairs home office, the shouts of YES! AMAZING! UNBELIEVABLE! AMEN! were coming out with regularity the next 8 hours as I digested verses and spiritual truths like never before, I learned more in 8 hours than in the previous 34 years. Yes, I was familiar with many verses and chapters some committed to memory but never had it become so crystal clear.

In the following months I have continued to learn incredible things and my family and friends have seen remarkable differences in me, my disposition and patience. The biggest thing I can say I learned from Ray and Mike's papers is the Lord working in me and how He is, was & will be with all mankind.

Dan, I did not mean for this to become such a long piece but I wanted to fill in a few gaps in my testimony and I wanted to underscore how I know the Spirit was working in me taking me through the wilderness, holding my hand through some incredible circumstances for decades before I had a clue as to where it was all leading.

So unlike many of you who were devoted church members until your personal study convinced you to come out of her, when I left the church totally disillusioned at around 20 years old and I went into the underbelly of the world looking for thrills and "easy money" not realizing at all that this was my path to Him.

Hopefully this may have cleared up where I am coming from and I apologize for using so many words to do it.

Joe
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rvhill

  • Guest
Stupid website
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2006, 07:46:38 PM »

Quote from: Falconn003
Jennie, rvhill

Read the link i posted above, this guy gospled to the convicts and has gotten a bigger head on him then most TBN memebers.

Any how he has tried to rebutt many,,many  pepoel yet when they question his rebuttals he simply ignores the questions or changes the topic.

This guy is a big joke of vanity for himself and nothing more, time wasted on this individual is better spent watching paitn dry or snails mate.  :wink:


Rodger


2 Timothy 2:23 Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.


Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.


I have not read it, but I probable know what it will say. Why wast time will a fool. Does it glorify God to wast your time with fools?
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Falconn003

  • Guest
Stupid website
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2006, 07:54:17 PM »

rvhill

Unfortunatly i did read a little and like a bad rash it took a long time to get that out of my system.

Hey........that guy should interview this nut on his religion.....now that would amaze some along with that davinci code, and gosple of judas.  then if you still got time grab a bag of popcorn and go rent passion of christ.  :wink:


Rodger
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Stupid website
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2006, 08:01:58 PM »

Maybe I posted my previous post in the wrong section of the forum as it basically fills in some of the gaps from the time I left "the church system" until I was dragged to BT.

Joe
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Falconn003

  • Guest
Stupid website
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2006, 08:04:50 PM »

Joe

i dont see a problem with it, in fact why not just double post as an addemdum to your test, as it was needed here on this thread for clarification, your post fit the need indeed.


Rodger
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ertsky

  • Guest
Stupid website
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2006, 08:05:09 PM »

i love all Ray's stuff on bt and i hate heresy

does that mean i am saying "i am of bt" of course not

i try to love heretics by remaining faithful to the Truth and after two admonitions i reject heretics as scipture commands.

Tit 3:10  A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Tit 3:11  Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

i treat others the way i would like to be treated, if you find heresy in anything i post and i wont admit to it and repent after two admonitions i expect to be rejected.

f
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rvhill

  • Guest
Stupid website
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2006, 08:06:42 PM »

Some here need to study and take to heart.

2Ti 2:20 Now in a great house there are not only gold and silver utensils, but wooden and earthenware also, and some indeed for honor, yet some for dishonor.
2Ti 2:21 If, then, anyone should ever be purging himself from these, he will be a utensil for honor, hallowed, and useful to the Owner, made ready for every good act.
2Ti 2:22 Now youthful desires flee: yet pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace, with all who are invoking the Lord out of a clean heart.
2Ti 2:23 Now stupid and crude questionings refuse, being aware that they are generating fightings.
2Ti 2:24 Now a slave of the Lord must not be fighting, but be gentle toward all, apt to teach, bearing with evil,
2Ti 2:25 with meekness training those who are antagonizing, seeing whether God may be giving them repentance to come into a realization of the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and they will be sobering up out of the trap of the Adversary, having been caught alive by him, for that one's will.

I not trying to belittle any one here, but some here are more carnal then is good for them.

Even though Righteous Judge spirit was not in the right place and he had his own agenda, he did have in part a valuate point. Is it Godly to mock and belittle others. Is this what Paul is telling us in the above verse?

What about:

Mat 7:3 "Now why are you observing the mote that is in your brother's eye, yet the beam in your eye you are not considering?
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ertsky

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Stupid website
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2006, 08:34:23 PM »

/ertsky adopts accent

rvhill

are you talkin' to me ? ;)

which interpreted means is that last post directed at me rvhill?

if it is please be man enough to name names

please be sincere enough to put yourself on the line for spiritual judgement

or shall we all hide behind vaguaries and innuendo ?

f
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rvhill

  • Guest
Stupid website
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2006, 08:49:33 PM »

Quote from: ertsky
/ertsky adopts accent

rvhill

are you talkin' to me ? ;)

which interpreted means is that last post directed at me rvhill?

if it is please be man enough to name names

please be sincere enough to put yourself on the line for spiritual judgement

or shall we all hide behind vaguaries and innuendo ?

f




Not at you but others who bring up these kind of post. Unless you feel that something I said applies to something you do or think. In which case someone other then myself may be trying to tell you some thing.

Jennie's original post still have some validity.
Quote
I don't understand any of this. If it is something that will help me grow in the Lord someone help me understand but if it is more of a dispute I don't need to know more. Thanks ya'll!
how do these types of thread profit us?
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ertsky

  • Guest
Stupid website
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2006, 08:57:34 PM »

ah no worries rvhill

i've been copping a lot of flak for my terse style lately so a siege mentality had been trying to set in

i apologise to you for misjudging your intent, after all

who am i to judge another mans servant

f
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