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God's only begotten Son
YellowStone:
Allan,
Thanks very much for your comment. :)
Your original question was:
Also, I am not aware of any scripture that says Christ was eternal with the Father before the start of creation. If you have that, please post it. And if you have one or two more, that would be extra special.
You also state: :)
The Father has no beginning!
Which of course is totally true!! :)
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
But who was talking here? Was it not Jesus Christ giving his testimony? Is it not He who is to come?
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Does this not state that "in" the beginning, the Word was with God?
In the beginning of what?
Well Paul said the following:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
So if the begining means of all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers (Col 1:16)
Then this surely means that: "Christ was eternal with the Father before the start of creation"
If this is not true, then please give me Scriptual proof that God created Christ on the first day of creation.
There is no mention of that:
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Remember that: "For by him were all things created" - Col 1:16
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
That God, created Christ (Jehovah) is a given, but there is no Scriptual proof to my knowledge that ever states when. We simply do not know; however, the Scriptures do say on this matter:
Jhn 1:1 [b]In the beginning was the Word[/b], and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (This Christ giving his Revelation)
Whether God created Christ a 1,000,000,000,000,000th of a nano second after he was, or 1,000,000,000,000,000 light yrs later (Christ created light) :) Is I feel irrelevant, for He either was with God in the begiinng before creation or he was not. :)
Alan, respectively, please provide two or Scriptures to prove what I have stated here is incorrect.
Of course this invitation extends to everyone, for if I am wrong, I need to know. :)
Love in Christ,
Darren
Robin:
Hi Darren,
I'm finding this a little confusing.
--- Quote ---I can certainly provide you with more than two witnesses to the fact that Christ was eternal with God, before the start of Creation.
--- End quote ---
I think you are saying that you agree that Christ was created at some point. The word eternal is causing some confusion for me in these posts. Are we talking about an age or never having a beginning?
Robin:
...and if I understand Dwight's post he is saying that Christ is eternal (never having a beginning) because he was always in the Father and came out of the Father?
Deborah-Leigh:
The Myth of the Trinity is an outstanding study by Ray that pulls out the truth from a deluge of contradictions, illusions and nonsence. Although it may not directly relate to what we are discussing here it does have a bearing on the revelations as to the relationship of Christ to God.
Ray points out that Jesus is not the Son of the Holy Spirit of God. He is the Son of God.
What really nailed it for me was the revelation Ray offers in this message that makes me believe that Christ is the Spirit of God that grew Jesus into the stature and height that was presented as the spotless Lamb and sin offering sacrificed for us by God Himself.
Excerpts from : Is God a Closed TRINITY or an Open FAMILY?
[A Scriptural Refutation of the Trinity Theory]
"IN THAT DAY [the day when the comforter comes] you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I IN YOU" (Jn 14:20).
"Now the consoler [comforter], THE HOLY SPIRIT, which the Father will be sending IN MY NAME, that will be teaching you all, and reminding you of all that I said to you" (Jn 14:26).
"I am going, and I AM COMING TO YOU" (Jn. 14:27).
JESUS CHRIST BY MEANS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD WHICH HIS FATHER GAVE TO HIM IS THE COMFORTER. THE GREEK PROVES THAT CHRIST IS THE COMFORTER!
In the Greek, the "comforter" or consoler is translated from parakleetos. Now, is there any Scriptural proof that Jesus Christ is called "parakleetos?" Yes there is. In I John 2:1 we read:
"And if anyone should be sinning, we have an Entreater with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Just."
In the King James it says we have an "advocate" [with a small "a"]. King James ALWAYS capitalizes the Greek word "parakleetos," so why don’t they capitalize it here? You see, "advocate" or a better translation "Entreater" is translated from the GREEK WORD "parakleetos!"
HERE IS PROOF POSITIVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE "PARAKLEETOS!"
This whole study is worth reading over and over again "until we all attain oneness in the faith and in the comprehension of the full and accurate knowledge of the Son of God..." Eph 4 : 12.....and this of course includes me as I share in your desire to come to know the Truth.
I do know that there are volumes of information on words and meaning in words like create, created, born, begat, eternal imortal and seeking, studying, praying, pondering and reflecting are simply Gods plan that through His Spirit will open all things to us all in His precious way and time.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
YellowStone:
--- Quote from: M.G. on February 19, 2007, 05:03:11 PM ---Hi Darren,
I'm finding this a little confusing.
--- Quote ---I can certainly provide you with more than two witnesses to the fact that Christ was eternal with God, before the start of Creation.
--- End quote ---
I think you are saying that you agree that Christ was created at some point. The word eternal is causing some confusion for me in these posts. Are we talking about an age or never having a beginning?
--- End quote ---
M.G. It is all pretty confusing :)
I like what Dwight say's, which you commented on. "...and if I understand Dwight's post he is saying that Christ is eternal (never having a beginning) because he was always in the Father and came out of the Father?"
I believe the Scriptures I posted supports this.
Of course I might be wrong and if I am then please forgive me.
Love,
Darren
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