God's only begotten Son

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Kat,

  So becuase Christ was the first of creation, did he have a beginning?  I don't want to pigeon-hole you here.  Your post did shed some light, but left me a little more confused.

Darren,

  I will respond to your post, when I have the time and have read up on this so that I can at least clear some confusion away.  Your post did help.  Thanks.

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire

[YellowStone]

Kat wrote:

It just seems to me that where Christ is concerned it involves the creation.  He was created by the Father to bring about the creation, to substain it, and to bring all the creation to sudjection to the Father.  He will turn it all over to the Father in the end, so "God may be all things in all,"  all this done totally by the Father's will.
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Hi Kat,

Thanks so much for sharing your view.

I do have a bit of a problem with something you wrote: He was created by the Father to bring about the creation, to substain it, and to bring all the creation to sudjection to the Father.

Is there any Scriptual proof on this? I personally am not comfortable with this because of the words of John

Jhn 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

You could of course argue that this makes perfect sense, because God spoke (through Chriist - the Word) and creation began.

Gen 1:3  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

This sounds pretty logical, but I feel there is an inherant danger in this thinking because of the preceding verse:

Gen 1:2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

It seems to me with the inclusion of Gen 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

What do you see? I see the three elements of the so called Trinity, all wrapped up in a pretty bow

Kat, please let me offer an alternative view. What if it happened like this.

Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

They are so alike that they are an exact replica of each other. The only difference being that out of the Father, came the Son. Equal in all aspects except Christ is the Son.

Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Does "Greater" mean more powerful or of greater stature or perhaps greater due the Sons repect for His Father?

So let us no return to Genesis.

Gen 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Okay so who "created?" It was Christ, because:

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

But there is a limit to what Christ did Create , those being the Heaven and the Earth (Gen 1:1) and all things in them Col 1:16)

Paul says something similar in his letter to the Romans:

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world kosmos {kos'-mos} [2889] (Universe) are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 

Do you see the difference between "created the heaven and the earth" of Genesis and the words of Paul "the creation of the universe'

The begiining as recorded in the Bible does not cover the creation of the universe, galaxies, soloar systems or planets. The matter was already in place albeit with out form.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

So how did matter that Christ formed to create the Earth come to be? Where did the universe come from?

We must not assume that the first time God spoke was during the creation/formation of the Earth.

It would seem that God would have been doing a lot of speaking through Christ prior to Gen 1:1.

Kat my Dear Sister, please do not take offense to this, I am purely speculating as were you.

I believe that this is all irrevelant and has no baring on what we need to know, for we want not to lose sight of the Truth as it is recorded for our instruction.

I promise no offense was taken just as it is my intention to offend no one.

Brotherly Love in Christ,
Darren

[Bradigans]

He said : Christ was created and His coming out of God does not change that or make Him eternal.

Okay, just one question. Is God's Spirit eternal? The rib removed symbolizes...

[Kat]

It would not be wise for me to try an answer all these question 
I have only a simple understanding from what Ray said.

I would suggest to email him,
he will read it and answer it, and sometimes it 's not that long before he answers.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat