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Author Topic: God-The Father  (Read 3840 times)

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Robin

  • Guest
God-The Father
« on: February 27, 2007, 05:55:41 AM »

Was God the only one of his kind? Did he always exist alone until creation?

I know I probably can't understand this as a human. God who has no beginning and no end decided at one point to create us as his children. That makes my brain hurt.
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rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2007, 10:11:09 AM »

M.G.,

  Very good question and always one that I wanted to ask.  I shall certainly follow this thread with great interest.

  Thanks for asking.  ;D  <checks off another question off her to ask list>

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire
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iris

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2007, 10:27:37 AM »

This is hard to wrap your mind around.
Maybe one day we will be able to understand.


Iris
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josh

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2007, 11:51:21 AM »

M.G.

According to the scriptures, God is "ONE OF A KIND."

Here are a few scriptures that are often quoted in the teachings at BT, as well as here on the forum... but they shed light on the question at hand.

Notice the repetition.

Isaiah 45:5-7, 12-18, & 21-25
5: I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I gird you, though you do not know me,
6: that men may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.
7: I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the LORD, who do all these things.


12: I made the earth, and created man upon it; it was my hands that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their host.
13: I have aroused him in righteousness, and I will make straight all his ways; he shall build my city and set my exiles free, not for price or reward," says the LORD of hosts.
14: Thus says the LORD: "The wealth of Egypt and the merchandise of Ethiopia, and the Sabe'ans, men of stature, shall come over to you and be yours, they shall follow you; they shall come over in chains and bow down to you. They will make supplication to you, saying: `God is with you only, and there is no other, no god besides him.'"
15: Truly, thou art a God who hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Savior.
16: All of them are put to shame and confounded, the makers of idols go in confusion together.
17: But Israel is saved by the LORD with everlasting salvation; you shall not be put to shame or confounded to all eternity.
18: For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it a chaos, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other".

21: Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
22: "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
23: By myself I have sworn, from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness a word that shall not return: `To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.'
24: "Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength; to him shall come and be ashamed, all who were incensed against him.
25: In the LORD all the offspring of Israel shall triumph and glory."

Isaiah 46:8-11
8: "Remember this and consider, recall it to mind, you transgressors,
9: remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,
10: declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, `My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'
11: calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it.


Hope this helps.

Grace & Peace.
Josh
« Last Edit: February 27, 2007, 11:52:02 AM by In Medias Res »
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hebrewroots98

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2007, 12:02:43 PM »

Amen ...THERE IS NONE LIKE HIM...THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA, THE BEGINING AND THE END :D
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TimothyVI

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2007, 02:37:12 PM »

M.G.

According to the scriptures, God is "ONE OF A KIND."

Here are a few scriptures that are often quoted in the teachings at BT, as well as here on the forum... but they shed light on the question at hand.

Notice the repetition.

Isaiah 45:5-7, 12-18, & 21-25
5: I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I gird you, though you do not know me,
6: that men may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.
7: I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the LORD, who do all these things.


12: I made the earth, and created man upon it; it was my hands that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their host.
13: I have aroused him in righteousness, and I will make straight all his ways; he shall build my city and set my exiles free, not for price or reward," says the LORD of hosts.
14: Thus says the LORD: "The wealth of Egypt and the merchandise of Ethiopia, and the Sabe'ans, men of stature, shall come over to you and be yours, they shall follow you; they shall come over in chains and bow down to you. They will make supplication to you, saying: `God is with you only, and there is no other, no god besides him.'"
15: Truly, thou art a God who hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Savior.
16: All of them are put to shame and confounded, the makers of idols go in confusion together.
17: But Israel is saved by the LORD with everlasting salvation; you shall not be put to shame or confounded to all eternity.
18: For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it a chaos, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other".

21: Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
22: "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
23: By myself I have sworn, from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness a word that shall not return: `To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.'
24: "Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength; to him shall come and be ashamed, all who were incensed against him.
25: In the LORD all the offspring of Israel shall triumph and glory."

Isaiah 46:8-11
8: "Remember this and consider, recall it to mind, you transgressors,
9: remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,
10: declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, `My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'
11: calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it.


Hope this helps.

Grace & Peace.
Josh


HI,

I thought that the common belief was that all of the things that you quoted were said by Jesus.

Wasn't God all alone before creation?

Wasn't God the Father before Jesus? And then God created Jesus.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, ( this is Jesus) the beginning of the creation of God;

And then everything else that was created came from God the Father through Jesus.

1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.


Tim

« Last Edit: February 27, 2007, 02:40:46 PM by TimothyVI »
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rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2007, 02:40:35 PM »

Tim,

  If I might venture a quesiton, is it becuase of the so called "doctrine" of the Trinity that many of us have been exposed to, that is hanging us up on the orginal question.  Thanks for your questions as well as Josh for your explanations.  Keep them coming.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire
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TimothyVI

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2007, 02:44:50 PM »

Tim,

  If I might venture a quesiton, is it becuase of the so called "doctrine" of the Trinity that many of us have been exposed to, that is hanging us up on the orginal question.  Thanks for your questions as well as Josh for your explanations.  Keep them coming.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

Hi Anne,

I can't speak for other people, but the entire doctrin of the trinity confuses everything about God in my mind.
You never are sure exactly to whom you are praying except that it is the trinity.
Consequently, I always pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus.

Tim

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rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2007, 02:49:04 PM »

Tim,

  I can totally relate to you.  I also pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus as well.  I think that is what the Lord's prayer says, I am not sure.  And didn't Jesus ask if we wanted anything or something of that sort, we were to ask it in His name and that he is mediator between us and God the Father?  Please correct me if I am wrong anyone.  I know I am stringing together at least four Scriptures together.  If I am in error, please show me the Truth, as I am willing to discern it no matter what it does to my beliefs, becuase in the end it will free me as the Truth of Hell and Tithing.

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire
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Pax Vobiscum

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2007, 03:10:20 PM »

...and I've been so good lately...

While the Scriptures surely (well, mostly) pitch the idea of One God, it was not always so. 

Early believers in Yahweh were polytheistic.  Yahweh was not the only God, He was the "best" God.  Interestingly, early use of the term "faith in God" did not mean "belief in God" as we use it today.  Faith in Yahweh meant that one relied on Yaweh as you  have faith that your chair will not collapse -- I do not necessarily have a belief in my chair for I am certain of its existence.

Moses really brought Jewish monotheism into being.  Most of the post-Mosaic writings increasingly referred to Yahweh in the "one and only" terms we enjoy today.

Scriptural references for this?  Try the 10 Commandments!  Ex 20:3 tells us not to have other gods beside YHWH.  If there were no other gods, why not say, "There are no other Gods but YHWH!"  The people to whom Moses delivered the 10 Commandments were polytheistic (which is why they thought it was OK to buld the idol) and Moses' job was to turn them into monotheists.


While this may not answer your question, I hope it helps you understand the question a little more deeply.

Peace
« Last Edit: February 27, 2007, 03:12:50 PM by Pax Vobiscum »
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TimothyVI

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2007, 03:58:04 PM »

...and I've been so good lately...

While the Scriptures surely (well, mostly) pitch the idea of One God, it was not always so. 

Early believers in Yahweh were polytheistic.  Yahweh was not the only God, He was the "best" God.  Interestingly, early use of the term "faith in God" did not mean "belief in God" as we use it today.  Faith in Yahweh meant that one relied on Yaweh as you  have faith that your chair will not collapse -- I do not necessarily have a belief in my chair for I am certain of its existence.

Moses really brought Jewish monotheism into being.  Most of the post-Mosaic writings increasingly referred to Yahweh in the "one and only" terms we enjoy today.

Scriptural references for this?  Try the 10 Commandments!  Ex 20:3 tells us not to have other gods beside YHWH.  If there were no other gods, why not say, "There are no other Gods but YHWH!"  The people to whom Moses delivered the 10 Commandments were polytheistic (which is why they thought it was OK to buld the idol) and Moses' job was to turn them into monotheists.


While this may not answer your question, I hope it helps you understand the question a little more deeply.

Peace


Hi Pax,

Of course you are correct. Scriptures say that there were many Gods. I just assumed the original question
here was about our God the Father. My bad.

To distinguish between gods even in the new testament, our God was the wise God, and the true God.

Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

And you have been so good  ;D

Tim
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SandyFla

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2007, 04:44:51 PM »

Tim,

  I can totally relate to you.  I also pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus as well.  I think that is what the Lord's prayer says, I am not sure.  And didn't Jesus ask if we wanted anything or something of that sort, we were to ask it in His name and that he is mediator between us and God the Father?  Please correct me if I am wrong anyone.  I know I am stringing together at least four Scriptures together.  If I am in error, please show me the Truth, as I am willing to discern it no matter what it does to my beliefs, becuase in the end it will free me as the Truth of Hell and Tithing.

  Sincerely,

  Anne C. McGuire

Anne,

Sounds to me like you've got it right.  :)

Sandy
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rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2007, 04:53:47 PM »

Sandy,

  Thanks for throwing that in.  I have wondered about that.  May God bless your day as much as he has blessed mine and as well as how much you have blessed my day as well.

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire
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josh

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2007, 05:19:00 PM »

TimothyVI,

You state:

“I thought that the common belief was that all of the things that you quoted were said by Jesus.”

Jesus is the “Word of God.” He is the medium [image of the invisible God., Colossians 1:15] by which God reveals Himself to humanity.

When Jesus speaks in the Old Testament, He speaks FOR God and by the INIATIVE and through the AUTHORITY of God the Father.

John 8:2828: So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority [initiative] but speak thus as the Father taught me.

John 5:19-20
19: Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever he does, that the Son does likewise.
20: For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all that he himself is doing; and greater works than these will he show him, that you may marvel.



Pax,

Good to see you posting, I always enjoy your “angle” on things.

Although, while reading your last post I couldn’t help but think that it doesn’t really matter what people believed before Moses or what they believe now long after Moses…  when I was young I believed in Santa… but now with some maturity (not much) I have come to understand that Santa, along with many other superstitions/traditions of our current culture are simply a myth.

From my understanding of the scriptures, I would say the same of those who had not yet received this knowledge via. the scriptures…  they believed those things because they had been taught differently, not because it was truth.

I see what you are saying concerning Ex. 20:3,  why would God tell the people not to have other gods, if there weren’t any other gods…  but going back to the original question “Was God the only one of His kind?”  Are you suggesting (I don’t think you are) that they’re maybe some other God’s who may be equal to God the Father?

Looking forward to your response.

Josh
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2007, 05:41:44 PM »


Here is a email from Ray.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3443.msg25690#msg25690 -------

Hi Ray,

1 Timothy 2:5
Why does this scripture refer only to the Father as God and not Christ

Dear Christopher:


Ah, but the Scriptures do refer to Jesus Christ as "God."

[1]  "But unto the SON [Jesus] He says, Thy throne, O GOD..." (Heb. 1:08).

[2]  "I am Alpha and Omega...says the Lord [Jesus[, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY [GOD]"  (Rev. 1:08).

[3]  "And Thomas answered and said unto Him [Jesus], My Lord, AND MY GOD" (John 20:28).

[4]  "Who [Jesus] being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD" (Phil. 2:6).

[5]  "Why doth this Man [Jesus] thus speak blasphemies?  Who can forgive sins, BUT GOD ONLY?" (Mark 2:08).

[6]  "Now unto Him [Jesus] that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His [Jesus] glory with exceeding joy. To the only wise GOD OUR SAVIOUR [Jesus Christ], be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen" (Jude 24-25).

One or two of these it could be argued refers to God the Father. But there are enough statements to prove Jesus wears the title "God."  Then, there is the whole matter of Jesus Himself being the "God" of the Old Testament which spoke to men, etc., seeing that the Father has never spoken to any man directly with a voice, and Jesus and the God the Old Testament did.

God be with you,

Ray
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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gmik

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2007, 10:32:55 PM »

Ray has said that God is Spirit.  Something we can't get a hold of.  Before He created anything where was He??  If there wasn't a Universe yet, what was He "in".  But He is Spirit.
So, no there were no other Gods like him or besides him or beside him.  He is spirit.  We can't put "Human ness" on Him.

(ps.  trinity talk hurts my brain too)
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iris

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2007, 10:43:53 PM »

Ray also said that God is everywhere. So if God is spirit and everywhere,
wouldn't he be in everything and holding all together?


Iris
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rick

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2007, 11:09:51 PM »

I believe God resides in each of us. some more than others. that is why 2 or more are gathered together in his name, He is there.
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: God-The Father
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2007, 11:49:29 PM »

Iris asked: :)

Ray also said that God is everywhere. So if God is spirit and everywhere, wouldn't he be in everything and holding all together?


God is Spirit and God is love, but he is something even more than that. He is Energy! :)

He holds the entire universe as we know it together so well and precisely that "man" can determine exactly when and it what direction to launch a spaceship (rocket) so that it will intercept or land on a comment or astroid years out and milions of millions of miles away. It is his energy that that fuels the millions of cells in our body, for surely if laws of gravity and the presure of the air around us changed but a small fraction, we would as would our world, cease to exist.

1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
He is holding everything together and I think this is why the following Scripture means so much to me :)

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

God is not hard to find if you know where to look :) Even with your eys closed, He is there.

What a true blessing this is, and how few are those that truly understand or believe it. :(

But God is in control of everything! :)

Great question Iris,

Your brother in Christ,
Darren
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