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[ara]

a former neighbor dropped by the other night, asking for money, for medication of her child who was supposedly bitten by a dog.
as i was talking to her,my recall of her when we were still neighbors, her family was already borrowing money from our neighbors, without being paid up to now. the husband was jobless,they have 3 children, the wife is also jobless. we tried to shared a little what ever we had, but seeing them doing nothing to earn a living,  we  were discouraged to continue doing so. seeing her again now, made me think is she fooling me again, with hesitation i gave her a little money, bacause  i remember we have to love our enemy, but deep inside, i hate her for being lazy. is this love?

[Jackie Lee]

I am fairly new to this forum so I say this with hesitation.... I believe once we find out we are being used then the loving thing would be to help them in some way like buy them a few groceries.
 I would not give them money though.
I really don't know for sure if I am correct on this.

[TRUTHSEEKER]

a former neighbor dropped by the other night, asking for money, for medication of her child who was supposedly bitten by a dog.
as i was talking to her,my recall of her when we were still neighbors, her family was already borrowing money from our neighbors, without being paid up to now. the husband was jobless,they have 3 children, the wife is also jobless. we tried to shared a little what ever we had, but seeing them doing nothing to earn a living,  we  were discouraged to continue doing so. seeing her again now, made me think is she fooling me again, with hesitation i gave her a little money, bacause  i remember we have to love our enemy, but deep inside, i hate her for being lazy. is this love?

My initial feeling is that in this situation it is best to love people at a distance.  Love them because we are commanded to love; but don't keep them as company.  They will only bring you down.  Some people this side of heaven you'll never get along with.  This is life.  It is a hard thing to continually feel that you are being taken advantage of.  Nobody likes that feeling.  Nobody wants it to happen.  You ask "is this love?". Well, it is only love if you are compelled to do so without giving a second thought about the decision you made.  Giving is wonderful. But if your giving is done grudgingly and with remorse (or even worse, hate) then it is not love.  You regret giving this person(s) aid because they apparently lack the means or the desire to acquire what they need for themselves.  If you want to give in love...then give.  Don't regret doing it.  Embrace it.  Give God thanks that He gave you the resources so that you can give.  Afterall, Jesus said that it is what we do in secret is what God will use to bless us openly.  If you are not at that level of faith as yet don't despair.  God will give you what you need, when you need it, in his timing.  In the meantime, pray about the situation and let God do what God does best...meet your needs. 

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

To All,

  Well in our experience we do not give out money.  We would rather give out things that they need as in gas or a bus ticket.  In lubbock one has to be careful of being swindled.  I do not think there is anything wrong with what you said Jackie Lee.

  And secondly, one should never give it if will put their own family in jeopardy.  I know since having our precious son, we do not give out any money or things of that nature, becuase to do that, would be to take money away from our son and our family.

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire

[Jackie Lee]

I kinda learned the hard way, I now just give to family and donate to organizations like Rescue missions.

[hebrewroots98]

I too have learned the hard way after being bunrt too many times.  I now just give out of my abundance (after our familys' needs are met.)   I no longer sacrifice the things that my family needs in order to bless someone else first.  I used to do that and then my family would end up having hard times.  I will give (offerings) as I am prompted to; and usually it is not  money that I give to others, although there have been times that I have, but, I buy them a meal, loan them something, give them of my time, give them rides, buy them gas, buy them groceries, I have even given out over the counter meds if they can't afford to get some themselves, give them a place to stay for awhile instead of giving them hotel money, and if I cnanot help, I lead them to someone who can help them, I help out where and when I am needed etc...  Too often I find that if you do give cash money, they will use it on something other than what they requested the money for (like drugs, alcohol, cigs. etc..)  There have been times when sonmeone would come and ask me for a few dollars to buy a meal and I would tell them that I didn't have the cash, but let me buy one on my debit card and they would refuse it, unfortunately, you have to be aware of the schemes that they will employ on you!  On the otherhand, I have been called all kinds of names by people/especially family members for not codepending them by loaning them  money to buy booze, cigs, lottery tickets, bingo, etc... 

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Susan,

  Ahhh therein lies the sadness.  Most of the people who need a helping hand are employed and are working to make ends meet.  It are those people that are shortchanged becuase they really need the help, but suffer at the hands of those who only want help to get ciggies and booze and stuff like that.

  What I mean to say, it is becuase of the negative images of users and those who are taking advantage of everyone the ones who sincerely need help suffer.  For example, suppose you have a family, both employed, and have 3 kids.  Suppose 2 out of 3 kids got sick, and the family knows it is going to be hard to even pay the bills for the next month.  Well, then the 3rd kid gets sick.  Now the government will not help them becuase of their income level.  So where do they turn? 

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire

[jennie]

Sorry ya'll, I have a somewhat different point of view. I think if someone asks me for something I give it. Jesus said "if they ask for your cloak give them your shirt too" or something like that. Even so, if I do as God leads me too and someone is taking advantage of me that is betweeen them and God. I've done what God wanted me to do. I have been taken advantage of but I don't really think about it that much.Jennie

[carol v]

I believe we are always to help even if they have stolen from us -- just help wisely. Immediately ask which pharmacy they use and go pay directly for the meds. The children shouldn't pay for the mistakes of the adults.

Luk 6:29  And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

There are many, many ways to give that don't involve handing cash out to adults. I pretty much assume that the adults asking for cash are methheads myself but then I remember the words of Christ. Help the kids no matter what and let God sort out the rest.

Part of our faith is knowing that God will sort it all out for us. I thinking that "loving" is truly the hardest part of Christ's commandments and something we all struggle with.

Jennie, I just saw your post. I agree with ya 

carol v

[iris]

Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to hem the other also.

v. 40 and if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
v. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
v. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
v. 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said. THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, and hate thine enemy.
v. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.
v. 45 That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
v. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not the publicans the same?
v. 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do you more than others? do not even the publicans so?
v. 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


Iris

[Jackie Lee]

Interesting posts thanks for the insight I see what you are saying.
I believe I may have become a little hardened and I agree we should help.

[Deborah-Leigh]

A good exercise may be to study Ray's biblical and scriptural teaching on love.

What is my motive when I give? Is it because I feel sympathy, do I feel I can help by giving, or do I question the person begging to find out why they are in such a state?

Once a beggar with a small dirty, runny nosed baby came for money at the foot of the steps of the Church I was once a member of. I rebuked her for her unclean soiled child and told her to wash her baby in the river that ran to the one side of the Church. The following number of weeks I did not see her. Then one day she came to me again with her child. She told me she had got a job and was very happy that I had rebuked her. So was I!

My motive that day was horror that a human being could use a child to invoke sympathy and use that emotion to extort money as a means for a living. What a horrible future for such a child. I was furious!

Other beggars who are quite hopeless have come to me for help and I have since found out that they are expereincing a rebellious spirit because they actually come from wealthy and well to do homes but they simply LIKE to be beggars!  They LIKE to drink and they LIKE to be down and out......We know that God gives us all a weak heart and makes it strong through adversity and the evil we experience. I know that such evil, I can not erase if it is God's plan for that soul to be raised up in endurance and finally wisdom through suffering. It hurts me that there are so many that God is moulding into His image and likeness that are taking their shape through accute pain and suffering but that is my cross I bear. I trust God knows what He is doing and that He is showing me what He is doing sometimes, is a privilage and His means to bring me into His image and likeness too. I do not turn away from beggars. I ask. I question and I enquire after them. I am appauled at the dark dungeons of the mind and soul that these people that are broken yet unwilling to change, are trapped in.

I was trapped once in a 10 year clinical depression. Nothing helped me. At one time I could not physically move it was so bad. I got help because I did not want to die and neither did God design for me to die. He authored my pain and my recovery!

The world will get worse not better. I am at peace with that. We all have to turn to God if we want anything to get better. We have to seek Him and ask Him and emplore His Mercy, Blessing and Unmeritted Favor. A beggar will turn to man and a child of God will turn to their Father God. That is the difference. We are not God. God is God. We are here to know Him and learn to love Him and love as He loves. Read Ray's teaching if you have not done so already....God willing, it will help.....

Peace to you

Arcturus

[TRUTHSEEKER]

Sorry ya'll, I have a somewhat different point of view. I think if someone asks me for something I give it. Jesus said "if they ask for your cloak give them your shirt too" or something like that. Even so, if I do as God leads me too and someone is taking advantage of me that is betweeen them and God. I've done what God wanted me to do. I have been taken advantage of but I don't really think about it that much.Jennie

Right on Jennie!  If someone takes your kindness for weakness then it truly is a matter that they will have to take up with God.  Just do as God leads and all will be well.

[Jackie Lee]

Now sometimes isn't it better not to give?
 I was giving to my addicted sister a few years back.
I refused to believe she had a drug problem, I borrowed on my credit cards helped her with an apartment bought her groceries.
This went on for almost a year.
The only thing that came out of that was my husband and I was deeper in debt.
The more I gave the more she wanted.
 It was sad and bothered me when I had to say no more but it was affecting every aspect of my life.

[gmik]

JackieLee, it is particularly hard to know what to do when its family and not strangers.

Some people God blessed w/ sweet, loving natures.  Others (of us) have to really work at showing Gods love to people-it doesn't come natural.  There are heathens by the millions that do plenty of loving, volunteer work and really live a sacrificial life.

When living close to God, in His Word, obeying what you can, praying, then He gives you the opportunity to help others or He leads you to not help-each situation is different.  We often go by past experience, common sense, or that strong leading we get from Him (if we are listening).  Sometimes isn't it just a matter of how much $$ you have at the time.

But wanting to help, living to help, developing a giving heart, all takes time & energy, and it won't happen if God isn't teaching you.  Maybe we need to see idols in our heart to learn some things.

We've all been stung and we've all been blessed.  Its all HIM.

[hebrewroots98]

It is my belief that it is better to not give money to addicted ones.  I have always felt that I would be judged for codepending those whom have a weakness for drugs instead of showing them tough love by not giving them money.  Right now there is a freind in our life; a strong believer, but, he is so addicted to RX drugs (prescription drugs) as well as to narcotics  issued tohim for his back pain...he has had a couple of back surguries an he cannot kick the habit from the drugs; although he has a a long history of drug abuse.  He says that he needs it for the pain relief and he goes on a drinking binge every now and again as well, but, he says that God will heal him when God is ready to since he has done all that he can within himself to quit on his own and has failed.  I am still leary of his reasoning for some reason.  Lord forgive me if I am sounding judgemental and hard hearted toward him, but I just care about him to where I won' t help him to indulge himself and possibly hurt himself further.  We have had to separate ourselves from him b/c we don't like the attitude that he has while under the influence.  God calls it witchcraft, anything that alters the mind

[hebrewroots98]

It is my belief that it is better to not give money to addicted ones.  I have always felt that I would be judged for codepending those whom have a weakness for drugs instead of showing him tough love by not giving them money.  Right now there is a freind in our life; a strong believer, but, he is so addicted to RX drugs (prescription drugs) as well as to narcotics  issued tohim for his back pain...he has had a couple of back surguries an he cannot kick the habit from the drugs.  He says that he needs it for the pain relief and he goes on a drinking binge every now and again, but, he says that God will heal him when God is ready to since he has done all that he can within himself to quit on his own and has failed.  I am still leary of his reasoning for some reason.  Lord forgive me if I am sounding judgemental and hard hearted toward him, but I just care about him to where I won' t help him to indulge himself and possibly hurt himself further.

[Jackie Lee]

JackieLee, it is particularly hard to know what to do when its family and not strangers.

Some people God blessed w/ sweet, loving natures.  Others (of us) have to really work at showing Gods love to people-it doesn't come natural.  There are heathens by the millions that do plenty of loving, volunteer work and really live a sacrificial life.

When living close to God, in His Word, obeying what you can, praying, then He gives you the opportunity to help others or He leads you to not help-each situation is different.  We often go by past experience, common sense, or that strong leading we get from Him (if we are listening).  Sometimes isn't it just a matter of how much $$ you have at the time.

But wanting to help, living to help, developing a giving heart, all takes time & energy, and it won't happen if God isn't teaching you.  Maybe we need to see idols in our heart to learn some things.

We've all been stung and we've all been blessed.  Its all HIM.

gmik I agree there are times now I would like to help a couple of people in my family but my husband is against it.
My mother is up in years and if she needs I help her.
My husband will say so and so is able bodied to work and needs to stick with a job, which is true but I can't help but feel sorry for them if they are in need.
My husband is against helping others.
 My husband and I combine our income so it is hard to slip anything past him, not that I should really.
I have to say it makes me sad to see people in need but my husband says it is their fault, he is probably right.
I am learning to listen to God and try not let my emotions rule me like they have.

[Jackie Lee]

It is my belief that it is better to not give money to addicted ones.  I have always felt that I would be judged for codepending those whom have a weakness for drugs instead of showing him tough love by not giving them money.  Right now there is a freind in our life; a strong believer, but, he is so addicted to RX drugs (prescription drugs) as well as to narcotics  issued tohim for his back pain...he has had a couple of back surguries an he cannot kick the habit from the drugs.  He says that he needs it for the pain relief and he goes on a drinking binge every now and again, but, he says that God will heal him when God is ready to since he has done all that he can within himself to quit on his own and has failed.  I am still leary of his reasoning for some reason.  Lord forgive me if I am sounding judgemental and hard hearted toward him, but I just care about him to where I won' t help him to indulge himself and possibly hurt himself further.

I do agree with you when my sister was on drugs it was so obvious to everyone but me.
I now refuse to give money to her and so does my husband now.
The bad thing is he thinks after this experience we shouldn't help no one.
He believes if someone is hungry it is their fault, I haven't gotten to that point.
Not that we can help a large amount but I always want too fix things.
 I believe this is one of my weaknesses and God is helping me.
It is a control issue with me I want to fix people and God showed me I needed fixing.
That was an eye opener for me.

[YellowStone]

Hi Everyone

Christ's Second Commandment is to Love your neighbor as yourself. Is this not the same as loving your neighbor as God loves us? I think it is. 

And similarly we may ask God for what we want instead of what we need and be ignored by our loving Father; however, he will always give us what we truly need. I was really moved by Arcturus's story about telling the young mother to wash herself and her baby, to clean up. This is most certainly not what she was wanting, but invariably what she needed and the love what Arcturus showed should be as an example for us all.

Loving our neighbor does not necessarily mean being "lovey dovey" to each other; rather it is the helping and of a true friend.

We too, do not hand out money; rather we give food, clothing etc. Sometimes, all that is really needed is a warm, gentle smile. I know such as this has made my day on more than one occasion.

Great discussion!

Darren