who are the 144,000?

[kennymac]

Hello everyone,

I just realized that I do not have a clue what this number represents. I was taught, these 144,000 are converted end time Jewish evangelists, who will lead the people to our Lord, during the great tribulation.

I would greatly welcome any scripture and information on this topic.  My daughter has just asked me who they are, and I couldn't give her an answer.

Thanks all,

Kennymac

[Jackie Lee]

That is what I was taught also, hope we can find some answers.

[Kat]

Hi kennymac and Jackie,

I found this in Ray's Lake of Fire article no. 4.
I think it will help you with this 

http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html ---------------------------------------------

THE FIRSTFRUITS (Feast of Weeks): "All the best of the oil , and all the best of the wine, and of the wheat, the FIRSTFRUITS of them which they shall offer unto the Lord, them have I given thee ... And whatsoever is FIRST RIPE in the land which they shall bring unto the Lord, shall be thine..." (Num. 18:12 & 13). "And now, behold, I have brought the firstfruits of the land, which thou, O Lord, has given me. And thou shalt set it before the LORD thy God, and worship before the Lord thy God" (Deut. 26:10).

COMMENT: The type in the New Testament of this Old Testament symbol is the Believer. Notice what James tells us, "Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of FIRSTFRUITS of His creatures" (James 1:18). Now a very important point: How far down the road in prophecy can we go until we reach the end of the firstfruits? In Rev. 7:4-8 we read of the sealing of the 144,000. These are a different group from the great innumerable multitude, which no man could number, from every nation and tongue spoken of beginning in verse 9.

In Chapter 14:1 & 4 we are told specifically who these 144,000 are: "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand [notice that the innumerable multitudes from all nations is not mentioned here] ... These are they which were not defiled with women, for they are virgins [as in the Bride of Christ]. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, BEING THE FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb" (Rev. 14:1 & 4). So every believer from the Apostles to the 144,000 just prior to the return of Jesus Christ to establish His reign on the earth, is called and likened to FIRSTFRUITS! So what does this have to do with the lake of fire? EVERYTHING! Everyone saved before the Day of Judging is likened to firstfruits, so there will be no more firstfruits after the white throne judgment.

Paul tells us in Rom. 8:23, "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the FIRSTFRUITS of the Spirit..." Nowhere do we read of the "LASTFRUITS," but whenever something is FIRST we also know there is something to follow. Nor are there any references to any "ONLYFRUITS." The firstfruits are clearly not the ONLY fruits! Follow this very closely now, for you are in for a big shock when you understand the type in the fall festival of Tabernacles—the great fall harvest.
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[kennymac]

Hi Kat,

I'm not sure I am understanding  correctly, this is what my limited mind is thinking.

There is going to be 144,000 First fruits.  All others that attain the 1st res. are likened to a first fruit, but are not first fruits?

Is that how I should be understanding this?

I just want to thank you Kat, it seems any time I have a question I can always count on you for some help.

Peace and Love,

Kenny mac

Ps. Kat you once posted instructions on how to navigate through Ray's writings, seems I misplaced the information. If you could repost, It would be most helpful.

[Kat]

Hi kennymac,

So every believer from the Apostles to the 144,000 just prior to the return of Jesus Christ to establish His reign on the earth, is called and likened to FIRSTFRUITS!

Simply put the elect are the firstfruits.  Christ is The Firstfurit, the elect are firstfruits after He finished His work on earth.
The 144,000 is a symbolic number that stands for the firstfruits/elect harvested since Jesus' resurrection until He comes again. 

In Chapter 14:1 & 4 we are told specifically who these 144,000 are: "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand [notice that the innumerable multitudes from all nations is not mentioned here] ... These are they which were not defiled with women, for they are virgins [as in the Bride of Christ]. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, BEING THE FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb" (Rev. 14:1 & 4).

This is the first resurrection at Christ's coming, of the Firstfruits/elect.

To find a specific word in an article of Ray's:  hold down the Ctrl key and then hit the F key.  You will see a bar at the top that you can put any word or pharse on and search the page 

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[PKnowler]

Hey Kat,

     That's totally cool!  Thanks for sharing that search tip. 
         I didn't know you could do that! Awesome!

[Jackie Lee]

Thanks Kat I was thinking it was a literal 144,000 that makes perfect sense it is symbolic.

[LittleBear]

Hi Kat,

Do you by any chance know why the number is 144,000? I understand that the number is symbolic, but why that particular number?

Thank you,

Ursula

[Kat]

Hi LittleBear,

Rev 7:4  And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

The elect is the Israel of God. 

Gal 6:15  For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
Gal 6:16  And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

In Rev. 21 the new heavens and the new earth, which I believe is the kingdom come to the earth, is described and the numbers are interesting, "144 cubits by human measurement."

Rev 21:12  And it had a great and high wall, with twelve gates. And on the gates were twelve angels, and having names inscribed, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel:
v. 14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
v. 16  The city lies foursquare; its length the same as its width. And he measured the city with his rod, 12,000 stadia. Its length and width and height are equal.
v. 17  He also measured its wall, 144 cubits by human measurement, which is also an angel's measurement.

I'm not sure if this means anything, just thought it was interesting.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[josh]

There is a great deal of speculation concerning what numbers symbolize in scripture...

This is one of these subjects that seems of very little importance to me at this point in my walk, for the most part because there are so many others things that I cannot yet grasp that it seems a little futile to try and determine what different numbers symbolize in the scriptures.

Nevertheless, I did a bit of researching concerning the meaning of the number 144,000 this afternoon... mainly because I know how it feels to want to know something for which there seems to be no apparent answer... however I'm not offering a definitive  answer... but am simply continuing the dialogue already in process...

I think it's important to notice that John does not leaves us only with the number of 144,000 to wrestle with... but he gives us some insight into it's meaning by helping us to divide it up into appropriate proportions...

Let's look at Revelation 7:2-8

2: Then I saw another angel ascend from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea,
3: saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God upon their foreheads."
4: And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand sealed, out of every tribe of the sons of Israel,
5: twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand of the tribe of Reuben, twelve thousand of the tribe of Gad,
6: twelve thousand of the tribe of Asher, twelve thousand of the tribe of Naph'tali, twelve thousand of the tribe of Manas'seh,
7: twelve thousand of the tribe of Simeon, twelve thousand of the tribe of Levi, twelve thousand of the tribe of Is'sachar,
8: twelve thousand of the tribe of Zeb'ulun, twelve thousand of the tribe of Joseph, twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Benjamin.

Notice that the number 144,00 is 12 x 12,000.... 12,000 sealed from each of the 12 tribes of Isreal.

Twelve is a number that frequently appears in scripture... especially in the book of Revelation.

Check out Revelation 21:10-21

10: And in the Spirit he carried me away to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,
11: having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.
12: It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed;
13: on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates.
14: And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15: And he who talked to me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city and its gates and walls.
16: The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its breadth; and he measured the city with his rod, twelve thousand stadia; its length and breadth and height are equal.
17: He also measured its wall, a hundred and forty-four cubits by a man's measure, that is, an angel's.
18: The wall was built of jasper, while the city was pure gold, clear as glass.
19: The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every jewel; the first was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald,
20: the fifth onyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, the twelfth amethyst.
21: And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, transparent as glass.

From what I could find today, while searching, it seems to be widely agreed upon that the number "12" in the scriptures represents perfected foundational government... but I cannot say that with much authority... however I do know that the 144,000 represents the elect of God... the true (perfected or brought into the image of God) Israel... and this body (body of Christ) will be used to judge and govern the rest of the creation. 

1 Corinthians 6:3
1: When one of you has a grievance against a brother, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints?
2: Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?
3: Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, matters pertaining to this life!
4: If then you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who are least esteemed by the church?

I hope this makes sense... but, don't get so caught up in what the symbol represents that you miss what it truly means.  God has chosen some "according to the kind intention of His will" (Eph 1:15) to bring the rest of humanity to Him. This is good news... this is who the 144,000 symbolizes and will literally become... a refining fire (Psalms 104:4, Heb 1:7) just like our God! (Heb. 12:29)

Hope this helps.

Josh

[LittleBear]

Hi Kat and Josh,

Thank you very much for your replies. These numbers in scripture are very interesting, although I don't know much about them. If the number 12 represents perfect government, then it makes sense that 144,000 would represent God's elect, those who will reign with Him.

Thank you both for this research. I don't know how you do it. I'm just sort of absorbing everything right now, but one of these days I'm going to try my hand at finding scriptures myself.

Ursula

[Kirk]

Hi Kennymac...Let me add my 2 cents worth.  Did you notice there are two separate groups of
144,000?  One sings the Song of Moses and the other sings a song no man knows.  Also, did you
notice something peculiar about the listing of the tribes represented by the 144,000?

Simply, the first "Song of Moses" group includes the 24 elders and is representative of dead
believers, those who are dead and take part in the First Resurrection at the Second Coming, Lake of Fire, Great White Throne Judgement, Restitution of All Things, the Death of Death, the New Heaven and Earth arrival, etc., etc. (all simultaneous events.)

The second group. singing the Song no one Knows, are the Bride of Christ, the Overcomers, the
"Manifested huios of God."

Hope this helps.  It's really harder to explain than understand.

[kennymac]

Thank you all for your help,

It really wasn't an issue for me, it was just frustrating that I could not answer my daughter.

I raised her catholic, then introduced her to a pentecostal church, now, I speak of universal restorationf for all. I am sure she is loosing confidence in me!!

These days I am not saying much at all, not sure if I am correct for taking on this new attitude, but I am begining to believe that each individual is responsible for working out their own salvation. I was thrilled that she was coming to me for answers and then felt so helpless when I could not give her a clear vision of who these 144,000 are.

Peace and love,

Kennymac

[Jackie Lee]

Hi Kennymac like you I find myself not saying much it is almost like words want come, even though there are times I feel like I can talk a little about How God will save all people.
When I do chat a bit most rebuke me when it comes to the truths I have learned.
My family just don't accept my belief so I say very little.
I feel peace with it.
I like you have been in so many different churches over the years they think this is just some phase I am going through.
Through it all though I feel peace I have never had before knowing God's will is being done regardless of me or anyone else.

[Bev]

The 144,000 is a symbolic number that stands for the firstfruits/elect harvested since Jesus' resurrection until He comes again.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was pondering this a few months ago. The symbolic number 144,000 represents the true CHURCH OF GOD IN CHRIST? 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Kat

Thank you!