Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hebrewroots98]

I have a question for you all... What would you tell a woman who says the she has seen (on 2 dif occassions in her life) where demon(s) manifested themselves physically  through a person whom was in her home and that the person was speaking in a different and very scarey voice not of his own and that they had 'sucked the energy out of her when they hugged her".  (I am not really sure as to what I believe on this subject and I was not sure what to say to her, so I simply told her that this is a subject that I would have to study into since I am not sound in my beliefs in this area yet.  I could sure use some input and wisdom here.  Thanks a bunch.  I love you guys so much!

[Jackie Lee]

I believe it may happen the reason is I have experienced this to a degree.
 I later thought it was a deep depression she had.
I really think it is possible demons can pick a vulnerable person or someone that practices astrology or witchcraft.
I hope others has an opinion on this.
I will try and find scriptures if there is any pertaining to this.
 

[hebrewroots98]

I know that Legion was the name of the demonpossessed man that had the many demons that were inside of him and they had come out of him (and with a shreik) at the command of Yeshua, these demons then overtook a pigs' body and that pig ran off of a cliff and drowned into the water below.   

[Jackie Lee]

Jesus was casting out demons through out the new testament.
Here is something pertaining to demons...

43 “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. 44 Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation."  Matthew 12:43-45 NKJV

Kinda scary isn't it?

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Susan,

  I would believe that demons can physically manifest themselves.  If things happened in the bible then surely they still can and are happening here in the world today.

  Good discussion.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

[eggi]

Taken from LOF Part 9 - THE LIFE AND MISSION OF SATAN THE SERPENT DEVIL


Sinful Capernaum was never exalted to GOD’S heaven, but to their OWN HEAVEN, the heaven of their own minds. Their city never left the surface of the earth, but IN THEIR MINDS they thought they had reached "heaven." Now then, with this in mind, let us move ahead two verses and see how all these Scriptures tie in and harmonize together. Verse 17:

    "And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the DEVILS are subject unto us through your name. And he said unto them, [I know] I BEHELD Satan as lightning fall from heaven [when and as it was happening through the commands of His disciples]."

Christ’s disciples were filled with JOY over the power that Jesus had given them so that even spirits were subject to them. Jesus had just said that He would thrust Capernaum down from THEIR HEAVEN, their high place in their own mind. Next the disciples report back that they were able to cast down spirits (demons) from men’s minds, from their own heavens. They were excited to tell Jesus what they had done. They had the power to cast down DEMONS from men’s heavens, from out of their MINDS. And Jesus answered them back by saying, YES, I KNOW, I BEHELD Satan (prince of the devils and demons), fall from the heaven of men’s minds while you were doing it! And then even Jesus "rejoiced" (Verse 21).

God has a heaven. It is a SPIRIT REALM. It is where God lives and has His Being. Men too have a heaven. It is likewise, the REALM where they live and have their being—they spiritually live in their own minds, their own heavens.


Email responses on the subject:

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2540.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2600.0.html

Demons are spiritual, not physical:

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (Rom 1:20 KJV)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places [epouranios]. (Eph 6:12 KJV)

But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. (1Sa 16:14 KJV)

Notice that the demons (devils) always manifest themselves in something which has a mind. They do not physically manifest themselves out of nothing like in horror movies. Even Jesus was accused of having demons. Having demons means having evil and bad spirits (working evil/madness):

Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me. (Joh 8:48-49 KJV)

Legion (meaning many) was the name of the spirits in that man, not the name of the man:

And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep. (Luk 8:30-31 KJV)

Susan, the woman you are referring to might have had a crazy/mentally ill person in her house. I don't believe her at all when she says that the DEMONS "sucked the energy out of her when they hugged her". Maybe the person who was with her was leaning on her and she felt tired because of that?

Hope this helps you, I wouldn't worry too much about this Susan.

[epouranios]
ep-oo-ran'-ee-os
From G1909 and G3772; above the sky: - celestial, (in) heaven (-ly), high.

[hebrewroots98]

Thank you all for responding. 
I know that heaven and hell are places in humans minds and that there is no physical heaven and hell and that we all must be careful to not exalt things in our minds to think that we have reached heavenly places, and that God as well as satan dwells in the spirit realm and not in the physical realm, since satan is spirit and not physical.  I know that we have been given HIS power and authority to dispel the any lies that satan uses through people's minds; and I have no problem with knowing that demons dol not just magically appear out of this air as in the movies;  and it iis true that humans fights are not physical, rather spiritual.

But, what I cannot understand is when someone tells me with all sincerity that she heard an audible voice come out of a demon posessed man and it was not the normal voice of the man and that the voice was very scarey to hear; and then that he was showing an evil countenance on his physical face that was not the guys' normal expressions, rather an evil look: as well as when the MAN hugged her to say goodbye, she felt all of her physical energy drain from her body and she literally got physically ill (vomited) afterward???  How do you explain this?

Also, how do we explain the physical event of the Legons of spiritual demons in the posessed pigs?  And what is the purpose for taking 7 stonger demons to 'fill the house' of the person the one demon had left prior to the 7 coming in?  To make a stronghold for the person to remain in bondage?

I thought that I understood this earlier, and I may have just forgotten, but I will go and resfresh my memory and read the LOF Part 9 again, but I won't be able to till later on...
Thanks for your patience everyone.  I don't like getting rusty like this

[Kat]

Hi Susan,

I don't know much about this, but I found this email of Ray's to be interesting.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1910.0.html -----------------

Hi Ray,
    >
    > Really quick question. Can a Christian "or anyone" become possessed by
    > demons? Do the rites of exorcism work? What might be the purpose of
    > exorcism? I believe I have felt the influence of demons in my life at
    > certain times. I think every person does whether they are aware of it
    > or not.
    >
    > What is your interpretation of the truth here?
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    > Chris


    Dear Chris:

    There have been probably 5 to 10 thousand volumes written on demons and exorcism. It is not likely that I can explain this subject in five to ten sentences.

    There is "possession" and there is "obsession."  Many people are obsessed with demons and evil spirits rather than being actually possessed and totally out of control mentally.

    Catholic exorcism is more superstition than Scriptural.  Protestant ministers try to shout and SCREAM them out of people.  I had only a few personal experiences with people who were demonized.  With one elderly woman we prayed and one by one Jesus casted out a half dozen or so demons--each with his own name, I might add.

    The truth is that we "wrestle against such spiritual wickedness in high places" (Eph. 6:12).  It is part of our Christian walk of faith.

    The world is filled with "spirits of antichrist."  Many Christians worship these spirits.  I cast out dozens and dozens of these spirits of antichrist on our bible-truth.com site, and many pastors, theologians, and Christians hate and despise me for doing it. They love these evil spirits. But always remember, that if you have the Spirit of God in you, then:

    "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world" (I John 4:3-4).

    God be with you,

    Ray
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[hebrewroots98]

Thank you Kat for the reference.  So, basically, there are demons whom physically manifest themselves in  a person, and so the lady that was sharing this with me was correct in her account of her experience; the man WAS showing a physical manifestation of demons that were in him, and only by her using the power of the name of Jesus did this demon stop manifesting itself through the guy.  Now this does make sense.  Ih'm sure that as Rays states that it is rare to actually OBSERVE the physical manifestations of demons in people, but it does happen.  as Rays stated...THIS IS PART OF OUR WALK OF FAITH!  (Personally, I have never in all of my years as a believer, bought into that Charasmatic/emotional part of worshipping our LORD, as many others have.  I guess I was always skeptical of this deliverance type of worship since it had become so common for them to do each week.  To me it was as if they were trying to get attention/approval from men when they would try to deliver one.  I had a guy tell me one time that he 'LOVED TO SIT BACK AND LAUGH AT HESE DEMONS THAT WERE IN THE PEOPLE THAT HE WOULD HAVE A PART IN 'DELIVERANCE". )

Thank you so much, now I can share this with her SINCE this is the biggest obstacle that SHE has had with any of my beliefs/teachings from the Word.  Now maybe she will be one step closer to having her eyes and ears opened to accept these BT/LOF truths....   That would be very nice indeed.

[rick]

I have a question for you all... What would you tell a woman who says the she has seen (on 2 dif occassions in her life) where demon(s) manifested themselves physically  through a person whom was in her home and that the person was speaking in a different and very scarey voice not of his own and that they had 'sucked the energy out of her when they hugged her".  (I am not really sure as to what I believe on this subject and I was not sure what to say to her, so I simply told her that this is a subject that I would have to study into since I am not sound in my beliefs in this area yet.  I could sure use some input and wisdom here.  Thanks a bunch.  I love you guys so much!

I would tell her to stay away from those people and certainly dont invite them back into her home. their are some real wierd people out there.

[gmik]

Have you all ever heard of the prescense of "ghosts and such" at Gettysburg??  When we visited I had chill bumps all over me and I was saying Jesus' name just to comfort myself.  I may have just bought into what they tell you.  But so many people saying the same thing ove the years??  It was like hallowed ground and I wanted to take off my shoes.

Being in the charismatic/faith movement for 30 years, of course, I knew people that REALLY REALLY believed they cast out demons, and they all had their stories. I nevr experienced anything, even at sessions where that was the whole purpose.

I have witnessed people calling out things about people (words of knowledge) that they "couldn't" have known.

I don't know now it all seems so unimportant--that kind of thing I mean.

[hebrewroots98]

Dear Rick,

I have been talking with this woman and she was telling me of a situation that had happened in her past -several years ago (as well as about a year ago), she said she has only witnessed this type of 'posession situation' twice now in her 31 years of life, and that each time it scared her terribly, but that she trhinks that God has shown her these people in order to know how to help them.  She definately won't invite the recent person in her home, but she is just trying to figure out if God is using her in order to help these people.

Gena,
Yes, I have watched those unsolved mysteries about Gettysburg, but have never been there.  (I wonder if you didn't just buy into the seeds that were planted in your mind from hearing all of those stories.  I have been at historical battleground where I know for sure that peoople have died in battle, but Inever felt as though it was hollowed ground, and i never saw any ghosts...but that is just me.)  I too have never seen any real deliverance in churches when they boasted of helping others with demons.  I do however believe in the words of knowledge though. 
Yes, it is not as important for us here,to know these things, but, I just wanted to be able to be prepared to study these truths with her when the time comes.  

[Deborah-Leigh]

I believe that as we believe so it is unto us. If we believe :    "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world" (I John 4:3-4). then it is well and good. This is not to dispute the reality that there are evil spirits just as there are evil thoughts that are in people's minds. Our minds also think and so we can take in the influences of evil thoughts if our thoughts are not subject to the thoughts and ways of God.

 As a man thinketh so is he. Prv 23 : 7 and Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Mtt 12 : 34
If you believe in Vodoo you can die without any medical reason simply because the mind believes in Vodoo. Some have taken sugar pills and been told it is the medicine required to be healed and healing takes place. Some go to Benny Hinn

The word of God unscrambles insanity when God chooses to show Himself. He calls us and it is Christ that reveals to us His Father and His Father who drags us to Christ. We have to experience evil by contrast to finally know what is good. I believe one can go into an area and feel the presence of evil that has been thought and evil actions that have been done but, BUT He that is within us IS GREATER than he that is in the world...... yes ? The world is evil.....We have to overcome the world...........

In the final part of LOF part 13 Ray says

"So okay Ray, enought, TELL US WHO THE BEAST IS. Who? Tell us WHO?"

The "beast" is you!

Does the beast manifest physically.....all the time!

In the final part of  the LOF part 14 Ray writes....

And when I saw Him (in my SPIRIT) I fell at His feet as DEAD. And He laid His right hand upon ME (as He will upon YOU), saying unto ME (and unto YOU)  FEAR NOT. Rev 1 : 10-17

Truly: "We have seen the enemy and he is US."

Some would project blame on this or that spirit or this or that experience of heaven or of proverbial Hell........

Peace to you

Arcturus

[hebrewroots98]

Your'e funny Arcturus..."some go to Benny Hinn"   that one made me laugh outloud, thanks!

As for what I believe...that God is in me and not satan..., yes, that makes myself an overcomer, praise God.  I need and hope to show those fruits infront of my newfound homeschool friend and maybe she will come around to this way of thinking, and to not worry so much about God using her in this capacity for dealing with posessed people. 

I too do believe that the power of suggestion is very powerful, especially if it is coming from someone who you love alot.  (The man whom we bought our home from was a case in point:  his daughter is a PA (Physicians' Assistant) and she told him that most people that had been diagnosed with the disease that he had been diagnosed with, well they are gone within 6 months.  Being that he trusted his daughter imensley, he took it to be gospel and probably gave up on life faster that I think he would have had she not said this to him.)

Yes. some do blame spirits instead of looking at the beast within first.

thanks for sharing
Shalom to you too Arcturus!  

[iris]

I believe that as we believe so it is unto us. If we believe :    "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world" (I John 4:3-4). then it is well and good. This is not to dispute the reality that there are evil spirits just as there are evil thoughts that are in people's minds. Our minds also think and so we can take in the influences of evil thoughts if our thoughts are not subject to the thoughts and ways of God.

 As a man thinketh so is he. Prv 23 : 7 and Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Mtt 12 : 34
If you believe in Vodoo you can die without any medical reason simply because the mind believes in Vodoo. Some have taken sugar pills and been told it is the medicine required to be healed and healing takes place. Some go to Benny Hinn

The word of God unscrambles insanity when God chooses to show Himself. He calls us and it is Christ that reveals to us His Father and His Father who drags us to Christ. We have to experience evil by contrast to finally know what is good. I believe one can go into an area and feel the presence of evil that has been thought and evil actions that have been done but, BUT He that is within us IS GREATER than he that is in the world...... yes ? The world is evil.....We have to overcome the world...........

In the final part of LOF part 13 Ray says

"So okay Ray, enought, TELL US WHO THE BEAST IS. Who? Tell us WHO?"

The "beast" is you!

Does the beast manifest physically.....all the time!

In the final part of  the LOF part 14 Ray writes....

And when I saw Him (in my SPIRIT) I fell at His feet as DEAD. And He laid His right hand upon ME (as He will upon YOU), saying unto ME (and unto YOU)  FEAR NOT. Rev 1 : 10-17

Truly: "We have seen the enemy and he is US."

Some would project blame on this or that spirit or this or that experience of heaven or of proverbial Hell........

Peace to you

Arcturus

Arcturus, that was a really great post.


Iris

[Deborah-Leigh]

Shalom Sue

I do love that greeting. I studied the Jewish faith for some years and was offered to go to Israel and become a Madrich (spelling)....anyway....that was some very far away years ago! I recall singing on the beach in hebrew the antham and other songs of praise....a rich memory but not one that I feel I would want to return to....just a step on the path you know!...

Iris...I am glad you found some value in the post....You would find much much more if you ponder and reflect on the LOF Part 13 and 14. I have been doing just that today and plan to post a new thread arising out of the way the teachings and inspirations through Ray has moved my thoughts and feelings and shifted my perspectives.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[hebrewroots98]

Yes, Arcturus,
I too had a love for Israel and after reading Rays stuff on just how coprrupt they have become (The mother of all harlots), well, the spirit took away that love for their uniqueness and now I just  see them as any other misled group of people.  Some would probably call me anti semitic for saying that, but, I 'm not; neither am I of the replacement Theology sect either...I just am of the 'called out' ones who is trying to make her election sure by finishing the race in a 'spriritual discerning way' of the scriptures instead of the literal/physical way as most believers sadly are doing now a days!! 

(Infact, as a Messianic believer this time last year I had spent over six solid weeks, day in and day out doing nothing but working with two other sisters and between our efforts, we were able to raise exactly $40,000.00 and we sent it (all but 10% of it for expenses  via 'Christian Friends of Israeli Communities ambasador) to the Gaza Strip homeless refugees that ended up in Gush Katif tent cities.  Anyway,  I would like to visit there someday, as well as pauls' missionary journeys, but God will have to provide for that!)  I have some friend that have gone into the kaballism and who are over there right now and waiting for the temple to be rebuilt   they love that place and do not want to come back...she only got a 6 mo visa!  Yes, I too love their National Anthem!  Have you ever tried any of Paul Wilburs Music?  We have a  praise and worship video that is the best praise music we have ever heard in our entire lives!   He has cd's too and they are wonderful!

Shalom Sis!
Susan

[Deborah-Leigh]

You are so on the right path Sue!......I just am of the 'called out' ones who is trying to make her election sure by finishing the race in a 'spriritual discerning way' of the scriptures instead of the literal/physical way as most believers sadly are doing now a days!! 

No I have not heard of Paul Wil.....where I am right now is in a siilent zone! 

I have heard and sung too much garbage under the title "praise and worship".   .....all carnality, sensuality and emotionalism of the flesh with words that carry little honour......like "WE give you glory WE give You prasie".....GIVE ME A BREAK!....WHO in their right spiritual mind can give our Lord ANYTHING of VALUE...WHO?  NOT ME THAT IS FOR SURE.....On HIM I depend for EVERYTHING THAT IS GOOD HOLY AND WORTHY OF PRAISE....not on some top of the charts hit worship song!!!! Sorry...Paul Will may be very good or not of this category but I have no inclination right now to go and find out....silence for me right now is golden!

Shalom....to you Susan....I hope you review the LOF 13 and 14....is is a most liberating teaching and I would want that for you to re-newed depths of meaning and victory in HIM...Shalom

Peace to you

Arctrurus

[hebrewroots98]

Arcturus,
You may have a point there.  Paul W. does have a slant toward the Messianic doctrine of which we came out of about a year ago, so, why fill our heads with that 'old' and stale thought provoking stuff?  The music w/o the lyrics are beautiful, but he doesn't make just the instrumentals only...oh, well, it served its purpose at one time.  When I hear it now, it just reminds me of what bondage I used to be in and how GOD has brought me out of it.  At this point, classical and instrumentals are sounding the best...just good ole music w/o someones doctrine being sung.  thanks for the reminder :Dthat the silent zone is just fine.

I will read 13 and 14 again.  Thank you for wanting only the best for me.

[Jackie Lee]

Hi Susan I just noticed at the bottom of page, your name is Susan I am comfortable calling you that.
Music to me doesn't have to be gospel,in fact like you I like easy listening and some Classical.
I also listen to classic country at times.