Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[gmik]

Beverley & Paula:

I agree w/ you both!!

[hebrewroots98]

Dear Paula,
I understand how P& W music has helped you in some life and death situations, and how that God came to you through music, b/c I too have experienced the same, as I'm sure that most everyone here has done occassionally.  I have been ministered to via music; but only rarely.  I am glad that it works for you more often than it did for me and a few others here on the forum.

All that I was trying to say when I spoke of the different god and different jesus was that back when I was in the institutional churches, I saw the 'IDOLS OF  PEOPLES' HEARTS' for the majority of times when singing and playing musical instruments would be going on. (I saw and heard the following things that would distract me from worlshipping HIM the way I needed to and that made me unhappy.)  I've seen the majority of believers whom would play or sing their music and instead of giving their hearts to God they gave their praise and worship to the idols of their heart (look how great I am; look at me God, I am singing/playing for you...instead of being humble about it in their hearts; or they are trying to impress each other on how great they are; or they are doing it for money/sales of cd's/for being a traveling dance team for love offerings, or going on tour, etc...)  Yes, there are some songs that are sincere, like THE OLD RUGGED CROSS AND HOW GREAT THOU ART...but, I have still seen, heard and felt that even these older songs were bieng used at times for the self gloryification and I could see right through it.  There is only one group that I can listen to today that I can feel even remotely close to God while listening to it...and this musician has made millions of dollars on cd sales and by going all around the world in concerts and singing the same songs and lyrics but in different languages.  I guess that what I got back then while in the church served it's purpose but, if you think about the SPIRITUAL side of praising and woshipping God...HE wants THE INTENT OF THE HEART TO BE MUSIC TO HIS EARS, AND NOT SO MUCH OUR PHYSICAL WORDS BEING SUNG OUTLOUD (weather that is singing, thinking, or reading, talking, playing an instrument, or praying...etc.)   The question to me is are we doing it FOR AND TO BLESS HIM or are we are doing it to get something FROM HIM; that makes the difference to me.     This is a hard issue, I know.

Much love in HIM,
 

[DWIGHT]

It really is a matter of our heart.  If our heart is pure, then our mouth is pure to sing His praises.  To the pure all things are pure.  It's amazing that out of the same tongue proceed both blessing and cursing.  "Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
 
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.....But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be." James 3:5,6,8-10

Paula and Susan, I know what you both mean, and I feel that we are all of one mind and one spirit.  We all just see things differentley now than we ever did before.  God bless.

Your brother,

Dwight
 

[YellowStone]

Hi Susan my sweet sister in Christ

I feel compelled to share something regarding a comment you made:

Great point Beverly; so true that it is a dif god and a dif jesus that the denominations are singing to isn't it?  I too have not felt comfortable in singing along with those prompted songs either!

Please read this with a open heart and open mind for I do not wish to offend you or anyone.

But it would seem to me that you are rejecting words of praise, not because of what they are, or what they convey, but because who wrote and sang them.  

Would you feel such discomfort if Ray or any other in this forum penned those words? It matters not where or by whom the songs of praise were first formed; for who can honestly say that that they have said a sentence or thought a thought that has not worded before?

May I ask you why you feel discomfort when you hear such songs today? It seems to me, that you were where God wanted you, doing what God willed; God seen fit to open your eyes, he did not turn his back on you, for singing songs to a God and Jesus, he had you believe.

The words of Praise did not change, what changed is your focal point, for now you see God for who he is. I believe with al my heart, that those songs should NOT now leave one in discomfort, but rather their words and melody should be silver lined, for now each word and every note is directed to its rightful owner. God himself.

Please do not ever think that God takes comfort knowing that anyone that he has brought into the light, should feel distaste hearing songs of praise.

God reads hearts, and as you asked: Should one listen to songs of praise and perhaps sing along out of Love and Praise for him, or not, to justify ones own stance?

I know that sounds harsh, but words of praise from the heart are words of praise whether they are spoken, sung, heard or felt.

I love you my sister, and I truly hope that you can someday soon listen to such songs and be ever so grateful to God for allowing you to KNOW to whom the words and the intent is directed.

Your brother in Christ,
Darren

[hebrewroots98]

Guys, I will think this over and get back with you this weekend when I have more time.  Thank you for your love and support; I do not take offense when I am challenged to rethink an issue, as I do not claim to know it all.  Love to all of you .  Talk with you later.

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Darren,

  Thanks for posting your post dear brother.  I am a musician to the core.  I was a litle disturbed at seeing some of the conversation in here and steered to avoid it, becuase I did not know if anyone felt as I do.

  There is nothing wrong with any music.  Whether written in Babylon or outside of it.  Now what I am not saying there are not wrong musics out there, clearly I know that there are anti-God songs and such.  But I am talking about the more pure music.

  I love praise music and I compose quite a bit of it.  As long as every note glorifies God and word points to him, then all is good.  In fact he loved praise music, why do you think he even created music, if something was wrong.

  Now in considering the other side, there are others out there that make shows of it, but that's okay, becuase they are getting the message out there about God.  There's a Scripture that says Paul is addressing someone or a church I can't remember and he is talking about other preachers.  He says it is good, even though their motives are wrong or something like that, becuase it gets the Good News out.  Same principle with music.

  Now as a musician and one who loves and lives music in such a way that it is a sweet offering to God, I was a little offended by what was written here. 

  Darren thanks for sticking your neck out, becuase I could not do it.  Sometimes I just need to learn to bite the bullet and post.

 <is currently listening to praise music by the way> <grins>

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

[Deborah-Leigh]

Dear Ray,

I know you have said many times that you don't attend a church.  I go back and forth within myself becuase I am so hungry for teaching and communing, if you will, with "believers" however, when I do go to a church, I usually leave feeling frustrated, comdemned, crazy or angry.  Whenever I am in a church and people around me are speaking in tongues...and encouraging me to lift my hands and "praise Him"... or instructing me to "worship" because "God inhabits the praises of his people."  I cannot explain it but I get so angry!  Is that even in the bible?  What does it mean to "worship God?"  That may be a stupid question, but when I'm in a church and I look around but don't feel compelled to babble in tongues or wave my hands...I want to run for the door.  And I'm advised by well-meaning Christians that I need to "let go and let God in."  I'm told I'm supposed to praise God even when I don't feel like it, because I shouldn't be led by my emot ions.  In your wisdom and revelatory opinion...just how does one worship God?  (I feel silly asking that.)  Thanks so much.... Marie


Dear Marie:

OBEDIENCE!  There is no greater worship to God than to be obedient to Him. Jesus said, "Why call ye Me, Lord, Lord, and DO NOT THE THINGS WHICH I SAY" (Luke 6:46).

You would not feel uncomfortable in our meetings, I guarantee you. We are to worship; God in spirit and in truth. God's WORD is truth.  And it is through HIS Spirit that we obey His truths. And that is true worship.  It is fine to pray and sing and such things, but let's face it, people love to do those things because it makes THEM feel good, and they can only hope that maybe it makes God feel good too. But where there is not true obedience, any other form of worship is in vain.

God be with you,

Ray

[skydreamers]

Personally I love music!  It has saved me many times from my melancholy or at least got me through it.  Over time I have found that I am choosing mostly Christian music over secular music.  There are some really talented people out there! 

Ray is right though, I listen because it makes me feel good, or it helps to express bottled up emotions.  I've never been one to shout and sing and wave my hands, etc. in church, but at home alone when it's just me and the Lord, I do like to think that's He's singing and dancing with me.  It's true, I can't be certain if He approves, but I "feel" like He does. 

I do know that musical talent must come from the Lord just as the ability to paint a beautiful picture comes from Him too....He paints the skies, the rainbows, the flowers...he put music in nature everywhere...does anyone deny that birds are constantly singing???  Of course there is chaotic music out there (even in the Christian genre) but there is much that is soothing to the soul (at least for me).  If it's an idol of the heart than I guess I'm just not ready to give that one up yet! 

My children love music too and they have their favorite Jesus songs, as they call them.  My son can't sing in tune or on beat for the life of him, but he belts it out nonetheless and it is so cute.  And I'd rather him sing about God than some other scary stuff out there.

Personally, I don't care what the artist's motivation is or where they are coming from, if the music and the lyrics speak to me and minister to my soul, then I consider it a blessing...

Peace,
Diana 

[skydreamers]

Angels & Demons
« on: Yesterday at 06:32:23 PM »
   
    > Hi Ray,
    > I have read that angels and demons are messengers. Do you believe
    > this means that they cause our thoughts? So if i have a good thought,
    > that might be from an angel, and if i have a bad thought, that might
    > be from a demon? Thanks.
    >
    > Sean
     

    Dear Sean:
    No.
    Ray


Ray just CRACKS ME UP!  This is hysterical....

Anyways, I wanted to address the original question of this thread:  Do demons manifest physically in people today?

Before I became a Christian, I worked for several years as a counselor and caregiver to people suffering from eating disorders.  Most of our cases were really severe.  Anyways, we use to have to stay with them during the night and watch that they didn't hurt themselves.   Most of them didn't sleep at night and would need someone to talk to.  Like I said, I wasn't a Christian and I didn't really know anything about demons etc.  but a few years ago I was studying this subject out and I realized I had probably experienced some "possessed" people during my work at the clinic. 

At the time I didn't know what to make of some of the things I saw, but they freaked me out!  There were patients that would go into trance like states and the physical features of their faces would change and their eyes would get pure black.  It was the scariest thing I had ever seen.  They didn't rotate their heads, puke, or scream obscenities but the silent, cold hard stares from an otherwise sweet girl was enough to make your blood stop pumping.  When I talked to other counselors about this they chalked it up to the mental illness...but how does mental illness make a girl's face change so much it was unrecognizable??  It was bizarre, let me tell you.  These girls and boys hear voices in their heads that say horrible things to them constantly.  And most of them are terribly young.  It's devastating. 

 Now, I'm not saying that anybody who has an eating disorder is possessed by demons....I really don't know what to think.  I'm only relating what my experience was. Did Ray say somewhere that he thought all illness were caused by Satan and his army?? 

Peace,
Diana

[Kat]

Hi Diana,

This may be the email you are referring to.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2862.0.html -----------------

 Who makes people sick God or satan?  Preachers say God is all powerful but then give satan all the credit when something bad happens.
     

    Dear Reader:
    I can give you the simple answer, but few there be who [1] believe it or [2] understand it.
    "ALL is of God," but God never lies, never temps people, and never causes people to sin.
    Men lie, and men are tempted by their own lusts, and men sin VOLUNTARYILY from their heart.
     
    Yes, Satan causes disease, Luke 13:16, but only becuase it is in God's plan and purpose that there
    be disease in the first place.
    God be with you,
    Ray
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Luk 13:16  And ought not this woman, a daughter of Abraham whom Satan bound for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath day?"

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[YellowStone]

Lest anyone be confused regarding whether or not singing Praise to God is in vain and is not "true" worship; the Scriptures seem not to support this stance.

Psa 149:1 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, [and] his praise in the congregation of saints.

The word {Sing} appears 124 times in the King James. Praising our God and Father through singing is Scriptual and it feels Good for a reason. Our God and Father, commanded it.

How can we sing not, and be in true obedience?

Psa 66:2 sing forth the honour of his name: make his praise glorious.


Exd 15:1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.

Exd 15:21 And Miriam answered them, [li]sing [/li] ye to the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously; the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.

Exd 32:18 And he said, [It is] not the voice of [them that] shout for mastery, neither [is it] the voice of [them that] cry for being overcome: [but] the noise of [them that] [li]sing [/li] do I hear.

Num 21:17 Then Israel sang this song, Spring up, O well; [li]sing [/li] ye unto it:

Jdg 5:3 Hear, O ye kings; give ear, O ye princes; I, [even] I, will [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD; I will [li]sing [/li] [praise] to the LORD God of Israel.

1Sa 21:11 And the servants of Achish said unto him, [Is] not this David the king of the land? did they not [li]sing [/li] one to another of him in dances, saying, Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands?

2Sa 22:50 Therefore I will give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and I will [li]sing [/li] praises unto thy name.

1Ch 16:9 [li]sing [/li] unto him, [li]sing [/li] psalms unto him, talk ye of all his wondrous works.

1Ch 16:23 [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD, all the earth; shew forth from day to day his salvation.

1Ch 16:33 Then shall the trees of the wood [li]sing [/li] out at the presence of the LORD, because he cometh to judge the earth.

2Ch 20:22 And when they began to [li]sing [/li] and to praise, the LORD set ambushments against the children of Ammon, Moab, and mount Seir, which were come against Judah; and they were smitten.

2Ch 23:13 And she looked, and, behold, the king stood at his pillar at the entering in, and the princes and the trumpets by the king: and all the people of the land rejoiced, and sounded with trumpets, also the [li]sing [/li]ers with instruments of musick, and such as taught to [li]sing [/li] praise. Then Athaliah rent her clothes, and said, Treason, Treason.

2Ch 29:30 Moreover Hezekiah the king and the princes commanded the Levites to [li]sing [/li] praise unto the LORD with the words of David, and of Asaph the seer. And they sang praises with gladness, and they bowed their heads and worshipped.

Job 29:13 The bles[li]sing [/li] of him that was ready to perish came upon me: and I caused the widow's heart to [li]sing [/li] for joy.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will [li]sing [/li] praise to the name of the LORD most high.

Psa 9:2 I will be glad and rejoice in thee: I will [li]sing [/li] praise to thy name, O thou most High.

Psa 9:11 [li]sing [/li] praises to the LORD, which dwelleth in Zion: declare among the people his doings.

Psa 13:6 I will [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD, because he hath dealt bountifully with me.

Psa 18:49 Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and [li]sing [/li] praises unto thy name.

Psa 21:13 Be thou exalted, LORD, in thine own strength: [so] will we [li]sing [/li] and praise thy power.

Psa 27:6 And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will [li]sing [/li], yea, I will [li]sing [/li] praises unto the LORD.

Psa 30:4 [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.

Psa 30:12 To the end that [my] glory may [li]sing [/li] praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever.

Psa 33:2 praise the LORD with harp: [li]sing [/li] unto him with the psaltery [and] an instrument of ten strings.

Psa 33:3 [li]sing [/li] unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

Psa 47:6 [li]sing [/li] praises to God, [li]sing [/li] praises: [li]sing [/li] praises unto our King, [li]sing [/li] praises.

Psa 47:7 For God [is] the King of all the earth: [li]sing [/li] ye praises with understanding.

Psa 51:14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: [and] my tongue shall [li]sing [/li] aloud of thy righteousness.

Psa 57:7 My heart is fixed, O God, my heart is fixed: I will [li]sing [/li] and give praise.

Psa 57:9 I will praise thee, O Lord, among the people: I will [li]sing [/li] unto thee among the nations.

Psa 59:16 But I will [li]sing [/li] of thy power; yea, I will [li]sing [/li] aloud of thy mercy in the morning: for thou hast been my defence and refuge in the day of my trouble.

Psa 59:17 Unto thee, O my strength, will I [li]sing [/li]: for God [is] my defence, [and] the God of my mercy.

Psa 61:8 So will I [li]sing [/li] praise unto thy name for ever, that I may daily perform my vows.

Psa 65:13 The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also [li]sing [/li].

Psa 66:2 [li]sing [/li] forth the honour of his name: make his praise glorious.

Psa 66:4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall [li]sing [/li] unto thee; they shall [li]sing [/li] [to] thy name. Selah.

Psa 67:4 O let the nations be glad and [li]sing [/li] for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.

Psa 68:4 [li]sing [/li] unto God, [li]sing [/li] praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

Psa 68:32 [li]sing [/li] unto God, ye kingdoms of the earth; O [li]sing [/li] praises unto the Lord; Selah:

Psa 71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, [even] thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I [li]sing [/li] with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.

Psa 71:23 My lips shall greatly rejoice when I [li]sing [/li] unto thee; and my soul, which thou hast redeemed.

Psa 75:9 But I will declare for ever; I will [li]sing [/li] praises to the God of Jacob.

Psa 81:1 [[To the chief Musician upon Gittith, [A Psalm] of Asaph.]] [li]sing [/li] aloud unto God our strength: make a joyful noise unto the God of Jacob.

Psa 89:1 [[Maschil of Ethan the Ezrahite.]] I will [li]sing [/li] of the mercies of the LORD for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.

Psa 92:1 [[A Psalm [or] Song for the sabbath day.]] [It is a] good [thing] to give thanks unto the LORD, and to [li]sing [/li] praises unto thy name, O most High:

Psa 95:1 O come, let us [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

Psa 96:1 O [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD a new song: [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD, all the earth.

Psa 96:2 [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD, bless his name; shew forth his salvation from day to day.

Psa 98:1 [[A Psalm.]] O [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD a new song; for he hath done marvellous things: his right hand, and his holy arm, hath gotten him the victory.

Psa 98:4 Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and [li]sing [/li] praise.

Psa 98:5 [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp, and the voice of a psalm.

Psa 101:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] I will [li]sing [/li] of mercy and judgment: unto thee, O LORD, will I [li]sing [/li].

Psa 104:12 By them shall the fowls of the heaven have their habitation, [which] [li]sing [/li] among the branches.

Psa 104:33 I will [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD as long as I live: I will [li]sing [/li] praise to my God while I have my being.

Psa 105:2 [li]sing [/li] unto him, [li]sing [/li] psalms unto him: talk ye of all his wondrous works.

Psa 108:1 [[A Song [or] Psalm of David.]] O God, my heart is fixed; I will [li]sing [/li] and give praise, even with my glory.

Psa 108:3 I will praise thee, O LORD, among the people: and I will [li]sing [/li] praises unto thee among the nations.

Psa 135:3 praise the LORD; for the LORD [is] good: [li]sing [/li] praises unto his name; for [it is] pleasant.

Psa 137:3 For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us [required of us] mirth, [saying], [li]sing [/li] us [one] of the songs of Zion.

Psa 137:4 How shall we [li]sing [/li] the LORD'S song in a strange land?

Psa 138:1 [[[A Psalm] of David.]] I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I [li]sing [/li] praise unto thee.

Psa 138:5 Yea, they shall [li]sing [/li] in the ways of the LORD: for great [is] the glory of the LORD.

Psa 144:9 I will [li]sing [/li] a new song unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery [and] an instrument of ten strings will I [li]sing [/li] praises unto thee.

Psa 145:7 They shall abundantly utter the memory of thy great goodness, and shall [li]sing [/li] of thy righteousness.

Psa 146:2 While I live will I praise the LORD: I will [li]sing [/li] praises unto my God while I have any being.

Psa 147:1 praise ye the LORD: for [it is] good to [li]sing [/li] praises unto our God; for [it is] pleasant; [and] praise is comely.

Psa 147:7 [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD with thanksgiving; [li]sing [/li] praise upon the harp unto our God:

Psa 149:1 praise ye the LORD. [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD a new song, [and] his praise in the congregation of saints.

Psa 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them [li]sing [/li] praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Psa 149:5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them [li]sing [/li] aloud upon their beds.

Pro 29:6 In the transgression of an evil man [there is] a snare: but the righteous doth [li]sing [/li] and rejoice.

Isa 5:1 Now will I [li]sing [/li] to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:

Isa 12:5 [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD; for he hath done excellent things: this [is] known in all the earth.

Isa 23:15 And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre [li]sing [/li] as an harlot.

Isa 23:16 Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, [li]sing [/li] many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.

Isa 24:14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall [li]sing [/li] for the majesty of the LORD, they shall cry aloud from the sea.

Isa 26:19 Thy dead [men] shall live, [together with] my dead body shall they arise. Awake and [li]sing [/li], ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew [is as] the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Isa 27:2 In that day [li]sing [/li] ye unto her, A vineyard of red wine.

Isa 35:6 Then shall the lame [man] leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb [li]sing [/li]: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

Isa 38:20 The LORD [was ready] to save me: therefore we will [li]sing [/li] my songs to the stringed instruments all the days of our life in the house of the LORD.

Isa 42:10 [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD a new song, [and] his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.

Isa 42:11 Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up [their voice], the villages [that] Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock [li]sing [/li], let them shout from the top of the mountains.

Isa 44:23 [li]sing [/li], O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done [it]: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into [li]sing [/li]ing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.

Isa 49:13 [li]sing [/li], O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into [li]sing [/li]ing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.

Isa 52:8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they [li]sing [/li]: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.

Isa 52:9 Break forth into joy, [li]sing [/li] together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.

Isa 54:1 [li]sing [/li], O barren, thou [that] didst not bear; break forth into [li]sing [/li]ing, and cry aloud, thou [that] didst not travail with child: for more [are] the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

Isa 65:14 Behold, my servants shall [li]sing [/li] for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.

Jer 20:13 [li]sing [/li] unto the LORD, praise ye the LORD: for he hath delivered the soul of the poor from the hand of evildoers.

Jer 31:7 For thus saith the LORD; [li]sing [/li] with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.

Jer 31:12 Therefore they shall come and [li]sing [/li] in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the LORD, for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all.

Jer 51:48 Then the heaven and the earth, and all that [is] therein, shall [li]sing [/li] for Babylon: for the spoilers shall come unto her from the north, saith the LORD.

Eze 27:25 The ships of Tarshish did [li]sing [/li] of thee in thy market: and thou wast replenished, and made very glorious in the midst of the seas.

Hsa 2:15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall [li]sing [/li] there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.

Zep 2:14 And flocks shall lie down in the midst of her, all the beasts of the nations: both the cormorant and the bittern shall lodge in the upper lintels of it; [their] voice shall [li]sing [/li] in the windows; desolation [shall be] in the thresholds: for he shall uncover the cedar work.

Zep 3:14 [li]sing [/li], O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.

Zec 2:10 [li]sing [/li] and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.

Rom 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for [his] mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and [li]sing [/li] unto thy name.

1Cr 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will [li]sing [/li] with the spirit, and I will [li]sing [/li] with the understanding also.

Hbr 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I [li]sing [/li] praise unto thee.

Jam 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him [li]sing [/li] psalms.

Rev 15:3 And they [li]sing [/li] the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] thy ways, thou King of saints.


Praise be to our God and Father who allows us to enjoy a happy melody

Your brother in Christ,
Darren

[SteveW]

I like music and singing (I can't do either well), but in the past couple of yesrs I have become utterly disgusted with the "pop stars" of Christiandom -- who are "living large" on money people tell themselves they are giving to God.

Wether it is a book or CD, peddling the Word of God is just that.  It is wrong.  Someone mentioned T & R Butler -- they even peddle a video on "Practical and entertaining teaching on the dynamics of building and training a worship team".  What???  Probably a guide on how to run PowerPoint.

So long as isn't making someone money or building someone into an idol, I'll listen.

SteveW

[Deborah-Leigh]

Then you will need to tune into the Heavenly Host SteveW!

The intimate gratitude for God and His nature is a song of worship sung in spirit and in truth that is a gift that can not be either bought or sold.

Acts 8 : 18 However, when Simon saw that the Holy Spirit was imparted through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he brought money and offered it to them 19. saying, Grant me also this power and authority, in order that anyone on whom I place my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.20 But Peter said to him, Destruction overtake your money and you, because you imagined you could obtain the free gift of God with money! 21 You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is all wrong in God's sight, it is not straightforward or right or true before God 22 So repent of this depravity and wickedness of yours and pray to the Lord that, if possible, this contriving thought and purpose of your heart may be removed and disregarded and forgiven you 23. For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in a bond forged by iniquity  TO FETTER SOULS.


I know for a fact that Mystery Babylon spends enormous amounts of money to upgrade and develop its praise and worship out put going as far as investing in major equipment and recording studios to promote its productions into its cell church communities also designed to FETTER SOULS.

There is no doubt that the sound of music is a very potent influence and can alter thoughts and emotions. On this we can all be in like-mind even if we have different views about praise and worship. Sound has scientifically been discovered to have powers of emotional influence that can manipulate moods and mental clarity and decision making. There is a thing called white sound that sooths the nerves and sounds like running water in a spring or fountain. Other sounds can do the opposite and call out latent emotions such as anger or rage. Not only does sound have this effect but smells too can trigger emotions. Sight can also trigger thoughts and emotions and this is why I think all senses of sight sound and smell are employed by Mystery Babylon who builds the biggest Churches and hosts the largest choirs in religion building its monuments to man's idols of his heart.

Of course this is only a personal view point that may be right or wrong but is where I am right now!  

Peace to you

Arcturus

[YellowStone]

Arturus, you are right on the money with your post my sister. That the chuch of Babylon has succumbed to the lure of money and sensationalism is proof of their blindness.

I have been to churches where the music sounded more like what you would find at a rock concert. The shear volume was enough to remove any spiritual meaning. We have commercials on TV for a local "church" that has two cars crash head on in the center of the stage (read very big building)

I think this falls very neatly in what you said about sights, sounds and smells influencing carnal man. This is a far cry from the words of David.

Psa 46:10 Be still, and know that I [am] God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

Be still or raphah {raw-faw'} [7503] means:

1) to sink, relax, sink down, let drop, be disheartened
    a) (Qal)
       1) to sink down
       2) to sink, drop
       3) to sink, relax, abate
       4) to relax, withdraw
    b) (Niphal) idle (participle)
    c) (Piel) to let drop
    d) (Hiphil)
       1) to let drop, abandon, relax, refrain, forsake
       2) to let go
       3) to refrain, let alone
       4) to be quiet
    e) (Hithpael) to show oneself slack

And "and Know" or yada` {yaw-dah'} [3045]

1) to know
    a) (Qal)
        1) to know
            a) to know, learn to know
            b) to perceive
            c) to perceive and see, find out and discern
            d) to discriminate, distinguish
            e) to know by experience
            f) to recognise, admit, acknowledge, confess
            g) to consider
        2) to know, be acquainted with
        3) to know (a person carnally)
        4) to know how, be skilful in
        5) to have knowledge, be wise
    b) (Niphal)
        1) to be made known, be or become known, be revealed
        2) to make oneself known
        3) to be perceived
        4) to be instructed
    c) (Piel) to cause to know
    d) (Poal) to cause to know
    e) (Pual)
        1) to be known
        2) known, one known, acquaintance (participle)
    f) (Hiphil) to make known, declare
    g) (Hophal) to be made known
    h) (Hithpael) to make oneself known, reveal oneself

Be still, and know that I am God: surely there is a message in these eight words that the church of Babylon has forgotten.

Let me mention that one such church was IRATE because a few of it's parishioners had not handed in the W2's (tax form) so that the church would know how much to collect.

My wife and I nearly walked out then and there. We never went back! Noisiest church I have ever been too.

Love, In Christ,
Darren

[gmik]

Darren, we had to leave a church once cuz they wanted to see our W-2's to see how much we should tithe.  We said we would just like to be visitors, and they said No, after a few weeks here, you have to become a member and members tithe!!  Well, we just left.  Every now and again I see the pastor in town and I just smile really big and say hi.  One time I actually made him stop and shoot the breeze w/ me

Dear Arc:  I use to "praise the Lord" in the car singing loudly in tongues, believing all the while that that was the music of angels.   (altho I think I was in my heart w/ the knowledge I had at the time ??)

This last church that we left bcz of BT is a big, seeker, type church.  Bling everywhere etc etc.  They got a half hour on BET and we all were so proud and excited....a few months later he quit the deal....all the behind the scenes w/ "christian' people, the money, the business, even got to our pastor and thats saying something!!

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Darren and Arcturus,

  Thank you for both posting your posts.  Darren I love the Scriptures about music.  Music is very Godly <smiles>  Music is indeed the gateway to the soul, if it can be tapped into correctly.  In fact well played music, is such that the music plays itself.  Let me explain.

  Imagine, being so in tuned to the music, that it takes a life of its own and seems to play itself.  When I am playing, and am in tune to God, the music just lifts off the ground and takes off, not becuase of my well <coughes> great techinical ability and such, but becuase when You truly focus on God, he just seems to pop out of anything that you are doing including music.  Chaotic Music is truly beautiful.  I am working on one such pieace the Boulez 2nd Sonata.  For those of you interested, it is the hardest piano rep out there, and becuase I asked one day, I am stuck in learning it.  It has no keys or time signature.  It is truly beautiful.  Tying into music is mathematics.  Choas thoery is a wonderful thing.

  What is choas???  It is something that we have not defined the order or something that we understand as of now.  That is the beauty, to know that it is an ordered system, but no order has been defined or it. So it is ordered or choatic???  Who knows, all I know is that there is Order in everything and nothing is disordered.  Thank God.

  I am waxing philosophical this morning, so before I work myself into a philosopical frenzy, I will quit.

  Great thread by the way.

  <Listens to Paul Wilbur while posting this reply>

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire

[gmik]

Darren, I just re read all those scriptures on praising and singing.  I would suggest posters and lurkers to re read them also.

Whew!!!  I got happy in the Lord!  We ARE to praise Him, recite back to Him all of His wonderful deeds and how He redeemed us and how faithful He Is, Was and Will be....

And to SING of all His marvelous works and remind one another of His Love toward us.

Yes, it makes ME FEEL close to HIM when I praise and sing of How Good He Is.  It builds my faith up to know that He Will Continue To do His marvelous work in my life!!!

Israel's capturs REQUIRED of them a SONG of Zion....Was that hard for them to do??  Were they bummed that they had to leave Zion for Babylon??  Yet they sang, while forced into slavery.  I have always love Ps 137.  I get such imagery out of that.

And  we sang the Song of Moses.  What did it sound like?  Read Psalm 89 and then 90.  Always remembering How God Saved Them and telling Him how they trusted Him. Even tho Israel was in & out of trouble all the time.  So was David.  But they knew how to praise Him.

I remember being saved a short while, and attending a lutheran church cuz it was around the corner.  I was in Ann Arbor and could walk.  I had just discovered Jesus and the Word and I was in love.  I know of no other way to say it.  I couldn't get enough.  And there I was bored stiff.  I didn't get why they weren't as excited as I was and so happy.  Eventually I came to realize I was very charismatic by nature and belonged in a happy, praise filled church.  Then after awhile like everything else, loses some luster when real life sets in.  But by myself, I never lost that love & desire to praise Him.  I still have that need.

I agree w/ Ray, tho, worshipping Him in Spirit and Truth is Obedience to the Word.  Praising in the flesh is easier.  Obeying is harder.  But sometimes its the praising that gets me to obey.

This is an older thread and probably many won't even see it.  But for those who do, please re read those praise and singing scriptures.  They are lovely!!  And HE is worthy to be praised.

Hallelujah!!!

[Redbird]

God Bless You Gena,

I took your advice last nite, and really read those scriptures Darren has so meticulously brought together.  The words were like a lovely lullaby and sweet melody.   
                                           to  HE who IS WORTHY TO BE PRAISED
 With much gratitude,
 Lisa

[gmik]

Amen Lisa.  I felt compelled to say that, hoping someone would do it!  Thanks.  I am so glad it blessed you.

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Gena,

  Amen, Amen, and Amen.  That was a wonderful post.  Thanks.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire