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[Brett]

Thank you all for the share thought of "What religious in Babylon?" It is great to learn from others.

From Kat brought of Ray's article of "Lake of Fire Series" chapter 8. I have read this more than once. I want to show what Ray's comments with the scriptures that make sense to me, see below:

"Paul knew that just as he had to come out of religious Babylon, those under his evangelism would also have to one day come out of the New Testament Church of God’s Babylonian [that is Christendom] practices."

Christendom come from "Christians", not Mormon, Muslim, etc. etc. Because Christians calling "Lord, Lord, have we..." because they using name of Jesus alone and one Bible alone. Mormon do not use Jesus name alone, but more than one names, like for example, when Christ come in the last day, the Mormon would not say "Lord, Lord..." because they would confuse of where is Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, etc. They probably would say "Lord,....where is Joseph, Brigham, LDS presidents?" And Muslim would say, "Lord,....where is Allah?" Catholic would say, "Lord,...where is Holy Mary?" Those are called 'pagans' came from like Egypt. Not from Christendom. Ray said, "...out of the New Testament Church of God's Babylonian practices." Obvious is Christendom. When he said that the scriptures said "Called'' is the first before the "Called out". Never say first "called out" before "called".

And yes, of course that Jesus will equal all mankind to be saved. But the few chosen are for to reign with Jesus, to judge and save whole world before completeness saved all mankind (all mankind will be chosen after the judgment.


Now, the question is does God called out from 'pagans' like Catholic, Muslim, etc, etc.? Even called out from atheists.

Or

Or does God always called out from 'Christendom' the Church of God's Babylonian?


I don't see anywhere in the scriptures that say called out of pagans but "The Church" before "My people". 'The' Church (many called) is the Christendom, 'My' Church is the elects, called out of Christendom, the Babylon.


Moderators (or anyone), if you see anything that is error, would appreciate correct me.


Brett

[Sorin]

Great post Brett!

That's exactly what I was saying. Who is it that calls Jesus "Lord, Lord"? The Muslims, The Jews, Pagans, Atheists? No, it's Christians, and that's who's called out of her [The Christian church].  Therefore, Mystery Babylon is Christendom.

Rev 18:4      And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

You have to ask yourselves, who are God's people. If it's the Jesus denying Jews, Muslims and Pagans, then fine, Babylon is Judaism, islam, the World System , but if they're not [which they aren't] then Babylon is Christendom.

Also, are the Jesus Denying Jews, Muslims, Pagans, Atheists even called? No, and don't you have to first be called, before you can be chosen [called out of her]?
Yes, of course you do, for many are called but few are chosen.



Sorin.

[Jackie Lee]

Hey,

I may be out of line here, but it is my thinking that all religion, education, political, and economic systems are "Babylon".  The "Whore" that sits upon the babylon system would be the christian churches that partake of her evil ways in one form or another.  Every person would then need to come out of babylon and turn to Jesus Christ as the way, truth and life.  The only trouble is the "whore" will ensnare the new believer first because she shouts "Lord, Lord," and deceives.  As part of the "whore", you have to come out of babylon once again.........  confusion reigns in the old world........

Don't be too hard on me....I am coming out of her as well:)

Barbara

This makes sense to me, God was taking me out of things before I knew it was even happening and why.
Just lately I realized it was God through Ray's teaching and this forum.
It really relieved my mind when I realized all these changes were God.
Also just about a month ago he revealed to me to stay out of political debates.
I loved debating politics but a month later and I hardly care.
I have been out of church for a few years now but was considering going to the big protestant church within walking distance from my home.
Every sunday come around and I procastinated then I really realize I was to come out of the church.
Thank God no more guilt from not going paying tithes and all those huggy lovey people that don't know you at the grocery store.
Has anyone ever had that happen love you in church and ignore you in public?

[Deborah-Leigh]

Yes to your question Jackie Lee YES, and far worse!

The Pastor still owes payment to my husband for an assignment he did for him. We know that God,  not the Pastor is our provider so the amount due is a right off! Oh ...the Pastor is a rich carrot farmer and supplies 60 % of all carrot consumption in South Africa....he uses all the water too while others who have no water due to his draining out the water supplies to feed his farm...He built his business  on an inheritance he sued and nearly ruined his poor Father to obtain. His Father is still alive and supporting the wife and kids that the Pastor left behind.  After he left his wife and began a new family with the first woman he saw in the pack house because he asked God to show him his new wife. ....His new wife could not speak English. She can now but she is not permitted to have anything to do with us anymore. Talk about circumstances God leads us through!

Well...that is not all...He believes in Hell too!...We are among those he thinks are destined for it!...It must make him feel good...look good and continue to make merchandise of so many. He employs on his farm most of the congregation....facilitated the removal of a young girl away from her family in order to encourage her marriage to his praise and worship leader!!..The girls mother was distraught.

Anyway, it will all have a happy ending! Can you imagine how he will feel when he is shown the error of his ways and then after chastisement find out he is going to be SAVED TOO!.....Whew!....The Pastor is in for a major ride through the LOF!  Unless God drags him out of Babylon. If not, the Pastors weeping and gnashing of teeth is going to hurt like proverbial hell before correction is accomplished as it will be in the end. 

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Jackie Lee]

Arcturus. Thank you so much for confirming. It amazes me what goes on with pastors and I like the name you used* Pack House*
There is so much lust going on there most wouldn't believe.
I am so greatful God brought you and me and others out.
As far as pastor owing you and your husband that is really sad.
What amazes me is how they can even use the name of Jesus and cheat people.. but maybe it shouldn't because look at all the televangelist on television.
Their gospel is give me your money and you will be blessed.
Talking about this makes me thank God over again for pulling me out of those places.
                                                     God Bless

[Deborah-Leigh]

What is so horrific is that we were blind enough to believe and trust the Pastor!....We got a right royal boot out of that deception and it hurt at the time because Bible Truths was only revealed to us AFTER we got dragged out. We thought Mystery Babylon was the only place to be safe or saved!!!!We have been so blind and had to repent of the idols of our hearts that helped keep us locked int the hold of Babyloinian ways and errors.

God has is and ever will be so kind and merciful as is His nature to be. What a privilage to know He will right every wrong and all will be saved in the end!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[chuckt]

Hello!

Do you know what religious in Babylon? Remember, Babylon is not literal, it is spiritual.

Is Babylon are Christendom but not from Muslim, Buddha, Catholic (Mary), Mormon, etc? The reason why I asked because my mind has been thinking since over year ago. I will tell you what I was thinking. All Christians who say, "In Jesus name" or "only one Christ", "one Bible alone" are Babylon because they using name of Jesus only and one Bible only. Same as "Lord, Lord, have we not..." (Matt. 7:22-23). But Babylon are not Catholic, Mormon, etc. because they don't use name of Jesus only, they added Mary, Joseph Smith, etc before Jesus, and they don't use one Bible only because they added another books before Bible. Those are called Pagans but not Babylon. (??) That is what I have in my mind. I do not want wrong thinking. I don't know if I am right. Hope you can help .


So, what religious are in Babylon, do you know?



***No discussing over Mormon, Catholic, etc issues. Only what religions in Babylon.***

Brett

hi brett.

imho:

we are told what is mystery babylon in scriptures:

Rev 17:18  And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


what reigns over the kings of the earth? confusion!!


babylon= babel which literal means "confusion by mixing"
mystery means:hidden thing, secret, mystery confided only to the initiated and not to ordinary mortals a hidden or secret thing, not obvious to the understanding a hidden purpose or counsel
secret will 1c



so we see only few know about it and few understand to come out. come out of what? confusion by mixing.

we be not concerned of worldly things so ours is a spiritual exodus, and we understand what is mixed in the religious community "today"

physical/spiritual
grace/law
 and: what was confused in the beginning??? ((language)) the original tower of babel!!!!!!!that great city still exsists today.how many christians do you know confused by reading the bible from a 21st century mindset and seeing the words and not knowing???

ray has a perfect example:

The "hell" as the English used it in everyday life in the 1600’s:

Webster’s Twentieth Century Dictionary: "hell, n. [ME, helle; AS, hell, hell, from helan, to cover, conceal.]"

The "hell" of the 21st Century:

The American Heritage Collegiate Dictionary: "The abode of condemned souls and devils...the place of eternal punishment for the wicked after death, presided over by Satan…a state of separation from God…a place of evil, misery, discord, or destruction …torment, anguish."




is it not evident when we see churches resembling  the world and its ways.


great topic:

much love
chuckt aka euty

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hey Chuckt..euty

You wrote : The American Heritage Collegiate Dictionary: "The abode of condemned souls and devils...the place of eternal punishment for the wicked after death, presided over by Satan state of separation from God place of evil, misery, discord, or destruction torment, anguish."

the thought that occured to me is that the above definition actually fits better to the Church of Christendom! They will say "Lord Lord"  and ....well....we know..they will be punished...we know that they are presently presided over by Satan.....I know...I came out and can testify to much discord, destruction, torment and anguish experienced while in Mystery Babylon and sharing in her plagues!

Thank you for your thoughts....

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Brett]

Thanks Chuckt and Arcturus for the share your comments.

Yeah, 'CONFUSSION'. I went through it but I had enough ! I went to pagan's religious, then Assembly of God then Southern Baptist. It was very strong confusion that I cannot tell until God removed my spiritual blindness. I was extremely stunned. But now I'm glad to know truth, I mean the solid truth .

Brett

[Jennie]

It is all "babble" to me...Jennie

[DWIGHT]

Hi All,

I really appreciate all the wisdom that everyone has shared on this topic.  I would like to give it a little different angle and just see what you think.

The more I realize what Ray has said about the the scriptures being one, and that the words that our Lord speaks are spirit, the more I see that this Mystery Babylon is something we are in the process of coming out of.  Just like salvation is a process and enduring to the end, so is coming out of Babylon.

The beast, the kings on seven mountains, the sea, the earth, the plagues, the great whore, Babylon, etc., all are in us.  It's easy to see that Babylon is the church on the corner or the TBN preachers or "Christianity."  But these things in Revelation are really in us.  We don't wrestle against John Hagee or Dr. Kennedy, but we wrestle against principalities, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.  These principalities and rulers of the darkness are in our flesh.  That's why Ray said that he never had a problem with these brothers, his problem is the false doctrines that they teach.  And these doctrines come from their flesh,where all the things in Revelation dwell.

These are the physical things of Revelation but they really have a spiritual meaning.  Satan is a master of deceit.  His deceitfullness is never obvious but is always close to the truth.  That's why God shows us in the scriptures some examples of how close Satan can be to the truth.  In Genesis, the first Pharoah was a type of God who because of Joseph found favor with Israel.  The next Pharoah knew not Joseph.  There was a first Adam and the last Adam.  There is the Lion of the tribe of Judah, and there is a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, there is the lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world and in Revelation there is another lamb, "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." Rev. 13:11

 Like a lamb but he spake as a dragon, we can always tell them by the words or doctrines if they are the true lamb or not.  Jesus said that my sheep hear my voice....not the voice of the dragon.  We have to have His ears and His eyes because we could be deceived just like everyone else. 

Well,I'll stop here...just some thoughts for all of us.

God bless,

Dwight

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Dwight

That is beautifully written!.... I see that this Mystery Babylon is something we are in the process of coming out of.

This makes perfect sense to me! Just like non are Elect in this life, non are born again or saved until Jesus Christ returns and for now we have the deposit of His Spirit as He continues His work to transform us to His image which will be His likeness revealed when He comes again. More reason to anticipate with excitement and hope and due dilligence, His return!

Peace to you brother and thank you for your thoughts.

Arcturus

[chuckt]

Thanks Chuckt and Arcturus for the share your comments.

Yeah, 'CONFUSSION'. I went through it but I had enough ! I went to pagan's religious, then Assembly of God then Southern Baptist. It was very strong confusion that I cannot tell until God removed my spiritual blindness. I was extremely stunned. But now I'm glad to know truth, I mean the solid truth .

Brett

as it was in the beginning so shall it be in the end



babylon= babel which literal means "confusion by mixing"

what was confused at that great city of babel? ((language))

and so it is today, christianity is confused my mixing.

words like, hell,heaven, eternal, for ever , everlasting, torment,god punishment, JUSTICE, world, age...ETC

have all been mixed with modern day and greek definitions and meanings.

guess what else is mixed today?

grace/law
old/new
physical/ spiritual


all these follow the confusion of laugauge and interpretation of the translation of sacred scripture.

God bless all IN YESHUA
chuckt

[Kat]

Hi Dwight,

Yes, your point has very well brought out the reality that once we 'come out of her My people' physically and literally leave the church, we must also continue to purge those false doctrines.

It's easy to see that Babylon is the church on the corner or the TBN preachers or "Christianity."  But these things in Revelation are really in us.  We don't wrestle against John Hagee or Dr. Kennedy, but we wrestle against principalities, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.  These principalities and rulers of the darkness are in our flesh.

Most of us spent years in the church learning the ways of the flesh, now it will take a long process for it all to be removed, like the rest of our lives 
I don't think we even realize we are holding on to some of the false teachings, it has become our way of thinking.  But God will show us the error of it in time, because it all does have to be purged.

chuckt, interesting.  I do see what you are saying, they do mix and confuse everything 

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Brett]

Very well, Dwight and Kat. What a great insight!

Come out of her is processing, yes. After come out of her is to removing our spiritual blindness to see the truth. We now know the Christendom's doctrine are useless. But, we still have learning the new truth in spiritual way that we never had taught by Babylon in long years. Before we came out, we thought we understand God's word (in flesh things), yet we never did understood God's words in spiritual. So, we have God's spiritual in us and enable us to understand His words. Not like one day but to processing in us just as purging us from the false doctrines. You know, without God in us we would never understand God's Spirit words.

Thank you for the insight.

Brett

P.S. thanks for being patient with my poor language .

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Brett

Your post makes me think of 1 Cor 15 : 46 But it is not the spiritual life which came first, but the physical and then the spiritual.

I realised that we come out of Mystery Babylon physically first by physically leaving our associations and membership. Then the Spiritual coming out occurs and we we leave behind the heresy, we repent of our participation in false teachings and then comes conversion. It is all Christ coming to us and us being dragged to HIM. This process is completed for the Elect when He returns "to bring full salvation to those who are eagerly, constantly, and patiently waiting for and expecting Him" Heb 9 : 28

Peace to you

Arcturus

[snorky]

Right on Dwight, Arc, and Kat! Wonderful posts! We must pray for each other to support each other in our struggles...for some great, some not so great...in leaving all man-made religious tradition behind only according ot His Will. The of nonsense man's Babylon tradition of Easter is coming up...we will all, even those who believe they have completely left Babylon benind, need the Lord's help in not partaking of this foolishness. Particularly with relatives we are unequally yoked to.

Deb aka snorky