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[Righteous Judge]

For those that believe there's no such thing as free will;

Why do you mock those whom God has blinded their eyes from seeing the truth? Did He blind their eyes so you can gang up to mock them? It's all that's going on here. Two scriptural proofs to validate this would do, thank you. Some of you are glad that you are no longer in the "Harlot Babylon" but which is really better; to be among the harlot or to be out of the harlot? Afterall, it was God who made all, right? Those in the Harlot are there because God wants them there and those outside are there because God wants them there. So, who's better off?

Assuming that there is a terrible judgement in the age to come (of which neither Adam, Cain nor the people in Noah's days were warned of) rather than an eternal hell, is it really better off to escape it than to be under it. Afterall, those who go through it do so because God made them so and those who do not go through it, don't do so because God made it that way. So who's really better off.

[sunset_drama_king]

You should simply have faith in God's plan "righteous" (dirty rags.....) judge, not your (aka humanities) so called power to thwart the perfect plan of a perfect God.  If God PLANNED to create a creature that could thwart His desire to "save the whole world" and have "none perish" by it's God-like "free" will..... then me thinks you should take that up with God when you get the chance and ask him why YOU were so special to be determined before the end of the world to choose corectly and millions of other's did not get chosen before the foundation of the world...and you will.  Mark my words, you will.  You probably won't like the answer I imagine....

Yet all of your questions are answered (or refuted in their intentions) inside of scripture, which you never bothered to read AND believe in place of theologies "explanation" of scripture which elevates man's very pride to the very center of determining the ultimate fate of mankind FIRST (God is a secondary cause of this fate AFTER and only AFTER man chooses FIRST.....blasphemy! but I know you don't see it, I pray you will someday see this, before you are forced to endure a much harder trial....not the eternal torture of depraved christian theology, but also not a walk in the part for anyone...) It's called judgement, and it actually accomplish something for God's glory, but it's not exactly a warning and a dainty slap on the wrist....  

I pray that God gives you eyes to see, but I realize that's all I can do...  *I* can save nobody myself, only God heals the blind, in scripture and in life, and if all you see is the physical in these healings and you only see it for "that guy out there, not me"....you see nothing at all.

One thing to consider:  Are we in bondage to sin or do we choose "freely" to sin as we must supposedly choose FREELY to embrace GOD and deny sin?  Think hard about that one, and get back to me if you can with your scriptural take on that.

In Christ,
- Brett

[ertsky]

Did He blind their eyes so you can gang up to mock them?

recently on this board it's the gainsayers doing the ganging up

it's the bt board but lately we get heaps of gainsayers coming in just to make an argument.

 

It's all that's going on here.

i don't think that's all that's going on here at all.

f

[Sorin]

For those that believe there's no such thing as free will;

Why do you mock those whom God has blinded their eyes from seeing the truth? Did He blind their eyes so you can gang up to mock them? It's all that's going on here. Two scriptural proofs to validate this would do, thank you. Some of you are glad that you are no longer in the "Harlot Babylon" but which is really better; to be among the harlot or to be out of the harlot? Afterall, it was God who made all, right? Those in the Harlot are there because God wants them there and those outside are there because God wants them there. So, who's better off?

Assuming that there is a terrible judgement in the age to come (of which neither Adam, Cain nor the people in Noah's days were warned of) rather than an eternal hell, is it really better off to escape it than to be under it. Afterall, those who go through it do so because God made them so and those who do not go through it, don't do so because God made it that way. So who's really better off.

I think you should read some of the Hate Mail that Ray gets.


I can't even talk to my parents ( who are devout christians ) for example
about Jesus actually Saving The Whole World they won't hear of it. that's
just how Christians are, THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH ( meat) for they
are yet babes ( on milk).

[shibboleth]

Maybe it's just me, but isn't the name, Righteous Judge, kind of intimidating considering the fact you are accusing us of these same things? Of being righteous judges that is?

If you RJ have free will why don't you believe, as we do, that you don't have a free will? do you think every thought in your mind is there because you allowed it in? How many thoughts do you think in a day that just won't go away no matter how hard you try to remove them? How many times have you planned to do one thing and had to do another because of unforseen circustances?

We don't choose God, He chooses us. Acts16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; AND THE LORD OPENED HER HEART TO RESPOND TO THE THINGS SPOKEN BY PAUL.

Lydia was only able to respond as God had opened her heart to hear what the spirit was saying. Millions of people have heard {with their physical ears} about Jesus. But very few have heard with their spiritual ears. Just hearing a so-called gospel message doesn't mean you have heard. It is when our spirit is touched by Gods spirit that we understand.

You can be a God worshipper and yet not know Him , as is shown here by Lydia.

Did you, RJ, of your own freewill choose Jesus Christ to be your Saviour? Do you take credit for your salvation, or as one preacher said, it is 99% God and 1% you? How did you decide to choose Christ on your own with your freewill?

[hillsbororiver]

Are you here to gain understanding or cause dissention? With your screen name one may assume the latter, we (for the most part) came out of the denominations and know of what we speak, it is our hope that others will see the Lord's plan with spiritual eyes.

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you seek answers to your questions/statements. It is apparent you have not read much of Ray & Mike's sites. Here are the links. If you have any questions along the way please feel free to ask us.

Thanks,

Joe

http://bible-truths.com/

http://dakotaland.homelinux.com/

[zander]

I think RJ is just asking the question.  He/she seems like they think we are having a "them and us" attitude.  I dont think we are!  I dont think we are taking the pi** out of those who are "blinded".

Its trivial tittle tattle.  lets move on.

[rvhill]

I believe that some here, not all, are guilty of this.

2 Timothy 2:23 Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.


Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

[eutychus]

I believe that some here, not all, are guilty of this.

2 Timothy 2:23 Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.


Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

i am i am iam chuck is guilty :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

[Righteous Judge]

:lol:  Forgive me but I have to take the time to laugh a bit. Few of your eyes were "opened" to see that the righteous judge is referring to God not me. Definitely NOT me. This is exactly what I'm talking about. The tendency to mock everyone that does not share your point of view is absolutely there. If I came sharing your point of view, you may have ignored my screen name believing I was referring to God. Anyhow, the guy that wrote "righteous (dirty rags.......) judge", I think you would want to take that back. Besides you seem not to understand my question at all. You said my questions are answered and "refuted" (I wonder how) in the scripture, yet, I don't see any scripture in your post. You don't have to quote the scripture. A simple reference would do. All you did was start up an argument about free-will and eternal torture which is far from my intentions. All I did was assume your point of view then asked "why you do certain things". As for your question, it's outside the scope of my intentions. If I answer you now, I won't get an answer to my initial questions. All I will get is arguments why I am wrong and some mockery.

I've been on this forum before and I know a little of what goes on. You attack everyone that does not share your point of view with mockery and that is the truth. Sorin said I should read Ray's hate mails. I ask, what has that got to do with what I'm saying. Just because someone does something to you does not mean you should retaliate. Even those "beasts in Babylon" you talk about get hate mails. So, what's your point. Also, Shibboleth I'm not trying to argue about freewill. Even if I brought forth incriminating scriptures, you'll rather stick to your new found "truth". The way I see it, you're unwilling to reason with anybody. You just want to win me over to your side or mock me if I refuse to convert. Another name for that would be sarcasm.

Hillsbororiver, on the contrary, I've read a lot of Ray's writings. I agree with him on some points like the spiritual state of the "church" (I know you don't even believe that word is biblical but allow me this once). The greediness and all is sadening. Enforcing thithes and many other things are going on. However, what you fail to realize is that this does not happen everywhere. Those places that have not been affected by "American gospel" don't do those things. I would assume that most of you here are from the states. I doubt if I would see a chinese who is resident in China on this forum. If you are one let me see you. I would allow one or two but there wouldn't be much of them. Most of you are here because of the state of the American "church" otherwise, you wouldn't be. I'm not going to argue this however.

Zander, you're the closest to understanding my question. Your answer was on point but proofless. You just gave another name for it- "trivial tittle tattle". Do you think it is right to rejoice or be glad when an evil person gets what's coming to him? Bobbys43, I'm glad you can get along with someone in the Catholic church but that is just your story. I wasn't referring to you. Rather, I was referring to you guys, generally. Anyway, I'm quick to point out that it's easier to be free with words with no love at all in a forum than it is real life where someone can identify you. If we were in a round table, we would all act up and be covered with smiles and pretence but in a forum, "the beast" comes out, right? Bobbys43, you could only speak for yourself. I wonder if you could speak for others. Another point I noticed is that you guys generalise too much. If something happens to one person, there's no doubt that it happens to everyone. Bobbys43, shibboleth, Sorin, sunset_drama_king all generalized very clearly. If I missed your name, you only barely got off the hook.

Bobbys43 talked about himself and that must mean it applies to everyone as well. Shibboleth assumes that because the Lord opened Lydia's heart, it must mean that the Lord must open everyone's heart too. Sorin assumes that because her parents react one way, all Christians are like that. I must say that you are dead wrong on that one. O men! DEAD WRONG!! Apparently we have experienced things differently. sunset_drama_king assumes he knows my heart for a fact. Look at the way he states things as fact when they are all wrong. I think you want to take some things back. This much I would write for now.

[Gill]

Feel better now, RJ?

Not too sure whether you came here to 'show' people the 'error of their ways', or whether you just wanted to get on your soapbox for a few.
If it's the former ...you didn't do too good. Scoffing at others scoffing, doesn't go down well.  

Prov 14:9 Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favor.

Don't worry, RJ.  Any mocking, whether real or perceived will be burned out of us all, one way or another.

[love_magnified]

I'd rather it happen in this age rather than the ages which are coming.  :mrgreen:

[Righteous Judge]

Now RJ that was not a nice thing to do!!! You came in decieving!!!Shame Shame!!!

Excuse me please! I wasn't the one who updated the site and cleaned out old registered members. Please tell me. In what way have I deceived. Did I ever say that I was a new member to the forum. I simply didn't want to use my old user name. That's all. How is that deceiving to anyone. Maybe this was not your point but do tell me how I have been deceitful. I want to know. Maybe it's the righteous judge thing. Well if you must know, I wasn't even setting a trap. I just decided to pick righteous judge just like you decided to pick bobbys43. In fact I was even shocked when someone hinted on my username. I just had to laugh because it was so typical of a lot of members in this forum.

[shibboleth]

For those that believe there's no such thing as freewill. This is your quote RJ. Now you tell me why we shouldn't believe you don't believe in freewill when your first statement is for those don't believe in freewill?
Yes, God is in total control of every event that takes place in His created universe. If you think we are mocking, that's your opinion. Sometimes people who come here who don't want to earnestly contend for the faith have the idea they can change our minds with a few words and misapplied scripture. Many of these people are angry and don't want to think. We, many times, answer a fool as a fool. If you don't like that RJ, don't read our material.
If you had called yourself Exalted One, Holy One, Jehovah, or Mrknowitall, I would be suspicious about why you chose such a name. You can call yourself anything you like, but why you chose such a name makes me wonder.
Also, Lydia wasn't saved until her eyes were opened by God. You didn't answer my question.  Did you, RJ of your own freewill choose Jesus Christ to be your Saviour? Do you take all credit for your salvation, since it was your freewill that enabled you to choose Jesus?
You really need to look at the scriptures more carefully before you come here firing off your mouth.

[Harryfeat]

Hello RJ

Try as I might to very carefully avoid mocking or being  unnecessarily critical or even just talking down to someone, my intentions are not always successful.  No matter how precise we try to be with our wording, there is always room for someone to misinterprete our words.  As you said, even face to face communication can be misinterpreted.

I was glad to see the emails to Ray forum closed to posting. If you wanted to find mockery at its best/worst then it was there.  It is only human nature to lash out at someone who attacks your friends and people you respect, much less the tenets you strongly believe.  I have not seen a lot of mockery in the general discussions board, with a few exceptions.

What is considered mockery?  When bobby says that he feels sorry for his friend who is basically deaf and blind as a bat, is he mocking his friend?  Do we mock someone when we point out what we perceive as their weaknesses?


If your name had been "God is our righteous judge", do you think anyone would have been confused.  I, at first, found the name you chose to be humorous if not sarcastic, given the subject or your post.  After considering it for a couple of seconds realized that was not your intent.

Is there mockery going on in this forum? Yes.  But not all of it is intentional.  You can read a lot more of unintended into someone's sentences that were not well thought out or precisely worded.  

I am glad the topic came up because it is so easy to belittle those who do not believe as we do.  It is tiresome and somewhat condescending to hear that "when you have ears to hear and eyes to see then you will understand what I am talking about"  There are so many ways that we unintentionally put others down.  It is important to reflect on this and renew our resolve to treat our brothers and sisters with love.

I have detected no warmth of brotherly love in your post, however.  Your post is basically accusatory in my perception.  Some of the response you got is understandable if not regrettable but I did not think that the post was made in the spirit of brotherly love and understanding.  Perhaps I am wrong, but I didn't see the evidence of it. Perhaps if I had ears.... :shock:

If I had to use a single word to describe  the overall tone of your two posts then it could very well be "mockery".  What do you think?  Give us some reason to think otherwise. If you have been on this board before then do you have an ax to grind here that I/we are unaware of.  Bobby says you are deceiving.  Perhaps he knows who you are but I don't know what he's talking about. Do you?


I am completely lost as to your intent  here though I find this an important topic.   For now, I will assume that your intentions were honest and done with brotherly love at its base.  That is afterall  the reason for mine.

Blessings and love to you RJ and please be at peace with us and yourself.  

feat

[Righteous Judge]

For those that believe there's no such thing as freewill. This is your quote RJ. Now you tell me why we shouldn't believe you don't believe in freewill when your first statement is for those don't believe in freewill?
Yes, God is in total control of every event that takes place in His created universe. If you think we are mocking, that's your opinion. Sometimes people who come here who don't want to earnestly contend for the faith have the idea they can change our minds with a few words and misapplied scripture. Many of these people are angry and don't want to think. We, many times, answer a fool as a fool. If you don't like that RJ, don't read our material.
If you had called yourself Exalted One, Holy One, Jehovah, or Mrknowitall, I would be suspicious about why you chose such a name. You can call yourself anything you like, but why you chose such a name makes me wonder.
Also, Lydia wasn't saved until her eyes were opened by God. You didn't answer my question.  Did you, RJ of your own freewill choose Jesus Christ to be your Saviour? Do you take all credit for your salvation, since it was your freewill that enabled you to choose Jesus?
You really need to look at the scriptures more carefully before you come here firing off your mouth.

 :lol:  I hope it's Ok if I laugh once in a while. I just find somethings funny that's all. Shibboleth, another way of putting those words you quoted is this: "For those that don't believe in freewill". Do you have a problem with that. Yeah I know, it sometimes confuses me too. I had to cross-check again to make sure I put it right. I think I did. you should go over it again then you'll see what I'm saying.

Why I chose such a name? Well I had no ill intentions if that's what you're implying. I was going to register as the righteous judge before. I mistakenly entered the wrong e-mail and had to re-register but I couldn't choose "The Righteous Judge" anymore so I just removed the "The". There we go- "Righteous Judge".

I want to repeat again, once again that it is not my intentions to argue at least not now (I'm way to busy to engage in arguments now) but I was only wondering why the mockery. Someone said that it boggles his mind why people have such stupidity as to believe the harlot. Well it doesn't have to boggle your mind if you don't believe in freewill. I would also be careful about referring to people's "stupidity" if they really have no freewill. Afterall, was it not God that made them "stupid". What if you are the ones under deception, would you know it? Afterall, isn't God sovereign? I'm not really bothered about your doctrines right now. I only want to know why you mock others who don't share your point of view.

If they had not deleted all the post in "Emails to Ray" forum, you would have seen more of my point. Well, by all means, believe what you want. The truth is the truth and nothing would change that.

[Righteous Judge]

Hello RJ

Try as I might to very carefully avoid mocking or being  unnecessarily critical or even just talking down to someone, my intentions are not always successful.  No matter how precise we try to be with our wording, there is always room for someone to misinterprete our words.  As you said, even face to face communication can be misinterpreted.

I was glad to see the emails to Ray forum closed to posting. If you wanted to find mockery at its best/worst then it was there.  It is only human nature to lash out at someone who attacks your friends and people you respect, much less the tenets you strongly believe.  I have not seen a lot of mockery in the general discussions board, with a few exceptions.

What is considered mockery?  When bobby says that he feels sorry for his friend who is basically deaf and blind as a bat, is he mocking his friend?  Do we mock someone when we point out what we perceive as their weaknesses?


If your name had been "God is our righteous judge", do you think anyone would have been confused.  I, at first, found the name you chose to be humorous if not sarcastic, given the subject or your post.  After considering it for a couple of seconds realized that was not your intent.

Is there mockery going on in this forum? Yes.  But not all of it is intentional.  You can read a lot more of unintended into someone's sentences that were not well thought out or precisely worded.  

I am glad the topic came up because it is so easy to belittle those who do not believe as we do.  It is tiresome and somewhat condescending to hear that "when you have ears to hear and eyes to see then you will understand what I am talking about"  There are so many ways that we unintentionally put others down.  It is important to reflect on this and renew our resolve to treat our brothers and sisters with love.

I have detected no warmth of brotherly love in your post, however.  Your post is basically accusatory in my perception.  Some of the response you got is understandable if not regrettable but I did not think that the post was made in the spirit of brotherly love and understanding.  Perhaps I am wrong, but I didn't see the evidence of it. Perhaps if I had ears.... :shock:

If I had to use a single word to describe  the overall tone of your two posts then it could very well be "mockery".  What do you think?  Give us some reason to think otherwise. If you have been on this board before then do you have an ax to grind here that I/we are unaware of.  Bobby says you are deceiving.  Perhaps he knows who you are but I don't know what he's talking about. Do you?


I am completely lost as to your intent  here though I find this an important topic.   For now, I will assume that your intentions were honest and done with brotherly love at its base.  That is afterall  the reason for mine.

Blessings and love to you RJ and please be at peace with us and yourself.  

feat

Well finally, someone got what I was asking and answered well. Very true what you said. I can agree with that. Appologies if my user name confused anyone. By the way, Harry, "God is our Righteous Judge" is way too long for me to use as a user name. You can imagine typing all that over and over again anytime you want to login but I understood what you meant. I appreciate your reply. Thanks

[hillsbororiver]

Hello RJ, this was one remarkable post, a few verses came to mind as I was reading it;

Mat 7:3  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Mat 23:24  Ye blindguides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Rom 13:13  Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

1Ti 6:4  He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.

"Hillsbororiver, on the contrary, I've read a lot of Ray's writings. I agree with him on some points like the spiritual state of the "church" (I know you don't even believe that word is biblical but allow me this once)."

RJ, on what basis were you able to make the following statement? When did I ever say such a thing. Please show me.
Where have I said the word "church" is not biblical?

Exo 23:1  Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.

Pro 12:17  He that speaketh truth showeth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.

Pro 25:18  A man that beareth false witness against his neighbor is a maul, and a sword, and a sharp arrow.
 
Mat 15:19  For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
 
I have said there is a carnal church and a spiritual church, the word church appears in the bible over 70 times in one form or the other.

It may have made you laugh when some questioned your use of a name reserved for God, but even Jesus would not allow Himself even to be called good.

Mat 19:17  And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Yes, one remarkable post.

Joe

[Righteous Judge]

Hello RJ, this was one remarkable post, a few verses came to mind as I was reading it;

Mat 7:3  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Mat 23:24  Ye blindguides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Rom 13:13  Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

1Ti 6:4  He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.

"Hillsbororiver, on the contrary, I've read a lot of Ray's writings. I agree with him on some points like the spiritual state of the "church" (I know you don't even believe that word is biblical but allow me this once)."

RJ, on what basis were you able to make the following statement? When did I ever say such a thing. Please show me.
Where have I said the word "church" is not biblical?

Exo 23:1  Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.

Pro 12:17  He that speaketh truth showeth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.

Pro 25:18  A man that beareth false witness against his neighbor is a maul, and a sword, and a sharp arrow.
 
Mat 15:19  For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
 
I have said there is a carnal church and a spiritual church, the word church appears in the bible over 70 times in one form or the other.

It may have made you laugh when some questioned your use of a name reserved for God, but even Jesus would not allow Himself even to be called good.

Mat 19:17  And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Yes, one remarkable post.

Joe

Interesting! It appears that I'm not the one who hasn't read much of Ray's teachings. Besides when I said you, I should have pointed out that "you" here is plural. God be with you

[love_magnified]

God blinding others is as much of a test for us as it is for them.