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[rocky]

just to make it plain

judge not is NOT a license to permit heresy

love your enemies is NOT an excuse to have a love in with a wolf

grace is NOT a sin permit

maturity is NOT an excuse to not rebuke error when commanded

IF YOU SEE ERROR and do not sound an alarm what kind of Brother are you ?

f

Amen.  I agree.  Paul never slept with the called, but in love he came to them, cried for them, prayed, encouraged, and pleaded for them to be imitators of him.  In his self death, life is given to them.  He became all things to all so that Christ was preached.    

We are to be ministers of reconciliation (to babylon), but how do we do this; if everyone that is on milk is considered a wolf?    

Is there a difference between a wolf and a baby sheep?  Baby sheep need milk from us;  wolves are to be starved by us??

[hillsbororiver]

I can see both perspectives as true, like 2 people looking at a different side of the same coin.

Jesus gave us an example, how He treated the multitudes, and how He treated the Pharisees. The former with tenderness and longsuffering, with the latter He called them on their hypocracy, and haughtiness.

Yes, we nurture those who are humbly seeking Him.

We call out lies and deception and a haughty spirit.

We shouldn't mimic those who accuse and disrupt, but ask questions that bring out the truth of their motives.

Joe

[rocky]

I can see both perspectives as true, like 2 people looking at a different side of the same coin.

Jesus gave us an example, how He treated the multitudes, and how He treated the Pharisees. The former with tenderness and longsuffering, with the latter He called them on their hypocracy, and haughtiness.

Yes, we nurture those who are humbly seeking Him.

We call out lies and deception and a haughty spirit.

We shouldn't mimic those who accuse and disrupt, but ask questions that bring out the truth of their motives.

Joe

I agree, i think we are saying the same thing.  Ertsky is seeing the carnal man that has been deluded to never move on to maturity, and yet preaches his belief as it is truth (this imho is a wolf).  Yet many are called that are being humbled and will move onto maturity.  Our job is to lay the foundation, and let God do the rest.  

All the called thru the foolishness of preaching will move on, if God permits.    

If we look at every called person as a wolf, how do we take the message of reconciliation to them?  

Only God knows there heart and their time for coming to perfection.

[orion77]

If I sounded an alarm everytime there is error, I would be a crazy man by now, with all the err in this world.

I, simply do not wish to cause any division.  When someone has a different opinion than mine, so be it.  That is okay with me, it does not hurt my feelings, because I am founded upon the Rock.  The foundation that I previously built has already crashed down, now it is not my foundation but His.  

I guess, to you, I am not much of a brother, but that is your opinion and I do not answer to you.  I do not understand the hostility, but it is nothing new, the true love of God and the love for the ones who eyes have not been opened, is hard to understand for most.

When in the spirit, it's about the "is, was and will be".  Past, present and future.  I hold nothing against anyone who does not believe as I do.  Because the day will come when the knowledge of the Lord will be everywhere and there will be no need for anyone to teach anyone.

I am past the accusatory stage of christianity, of which the gracing of our Lord has showed me.  I am just a small part of the many brethren and sisters, whether they be yeah or nay right now, but in the end ALL my brethren and sisters will one day be YEAH.  If you know what I mean.

I don't know if you have a problem with me personally, but if you do please voice it, so I will know where you are coming from.  This form of communication over the web can have its difficulities, seeing that it is easy for one to easily misunderstand another.

As far as I go, there are no hard feelings in my life to noone.  It is a whole lot easier to forgive and forget.  I will be the first to admit, this took God a long time to burn that out of me and come to realize we are all just the clay, He is the potter.  I am no better or no different than any of the other clay God is working on.  His goal is the same to all.  And His will be done, no matter what you or me might think.

God bless,

Gary

[Harryfeat]

Hello worm, everyone,

I would appreciate some help with some  concepts.  Please point me to where I can read up on this and please pardon my ignorance.

Here goes:

I thought that coming out of babylon meant coming out of the world, including but not necessarily just organized religion.

Further, I thought that coming out of the world means living your life in the spirit of Christ, continuously dying to the carnal and gaining life in the spiritual.

Lastly that this is a continuous process until the day our human flesh physically dies.

Our goal is to come out of babylon for which we  strive through God's will and grace  yet maybe never quite completely accomplish.  

Does this mean  that we are all  in varying degrees still in babylon trying to escape?  If so, I'd say there is only us.


Please let me know the extent of my ignorance in this regard.

Thanks in advance


feat

[ertsky]

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Jam 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob [chosen] have I loved, but Esau [called] have I hated.

Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Rev 17:14 These ["them"] shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they ["us'] that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

The word "continue" in the above scripture is the same greek word translated "abideth" in the scripture here.

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Now back "to those Jews which believed on Him".

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal [aionios] judgment. [UR]

Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Deedle

music to my ears Deedle

f

[orion77]

Isa 21:9
And behold this! Coming is a chariot with men, a pair of horsemen! And he is responding and saying,  `Fallen! Fallen is Babylon! And all the carvings and her forbidden idols are broken to the earth.'"

Isa 47:1
Down! And sit on the soil, virgin daughter of Babylon! Sit on the earth, not on a throne, daughter of the Chaldeans! For no more shall they call you,  `tender and delicate.'

Isa 47:2
Take a millstone and grind meal. Expose your draped form! Bare your skirt! Expose the leg! Pass over the streams!

Isa 47:3
Exposed shall be your nakedness! Moreover, apparent shall be your reproach! I will take vengeance on you,

Isa 47:4
and I will not interpose a human!"  says our Redeemer. Yahweh of hosts is His name, the Holy One of Israel.

Isa 47:5
 "Sit still, and come into darkness, daughter of the Chaldeans, for no more shall they call you,  `Mistress of the kingdoms.'

Isa 47:6
I was wroth over My people, and I violated My allotment, and was giving them into your hand, yet you show them no compassion. On the old you make your yoke exceedingly heavy.

Isa 47:7
Yet you are saying,  `For an eon will I be mistress still!'  You do not lay these things to heart; you are not mindful of your hereafter.

Isa 47:8
And now, hear this, luxuriant one, dwelling trustingly, who is saying in her heart,  `I, and only I, further! I shall not sit, a widow, nor see bereavement.'

Isa 47:9
Yet now these two shall come to you in a moment; in one day, bereavement and widowhood, suddenly they shall come on you in your many enchantments, in the staunchness of your magic charms, exceedingly.

Isa 47:10
And you are trusting in your knowledge. You are saying,  `No one is seeing me.'  Your wisdom and your knowledge, it turns you back. And you are saying in your heart,  `I, and only I, further!'

Isa 47:11
And evil comes on you. And you are not knowing of the pitfall. And woe shall fall on you. You cannot shelter yourself from it. And coming on you is devastation, and you cannot become clear. And coming on you suddenly is futility, when you shall not know it.

Isa 47:12
Then stand, pray, by your magic charms, and by your many enchantments, with which you were acquainted from your youth until today. Perhaps you can benefit! Perhaps you will be staunch!

Isa 47:13
You are tired with your many counsels. Standing, pray, are they, and saving you are the astrologers, the seers of visions in the stars, the informers for new moons, from the things which are coming on you?

Isa 47:14
Behold! They all become as straw. Fire shall burn them up. They shall not rescue their soul from the hand of the blaze. It is no ember to warm them, or light to sit in front of.

Isa 47:15
So they become to you, those with whom you labored, your merchants from your youth. Each man strays to his passage. No saviour is yours.



Harryfeat, there a few scriptures that describe babylon.  This has been a hot topic here, but it seems to me it's not just the churches and not just only self, but a combination of them both.  

Worldly religion definetely plays its part in babylon, but also the false idea of self plays a great role in babylon.  Notice that God is saying babylon is saying "I and only I and "your" knowledge and "your" wisdom".  

Truth is, if this were MY life, that would have to mean that I was somewhat responsible for my existence.  The life I have is not my own, it is His to do as He pleases.

God bless,

Gary

[Harryfeat]

Harryfeat, there a few scriptures that describe babylon.  This has been a hot topic here, but it seems to me it's not just the churches and not just only self, but a combination of them both.  

Worldly religion definetely plays its part in babylon, but also the false idea of self plays a great role in babylon.  Notice that God is saying babylon is saying "I and only I and "your" knowledge and "your" wisdom".  

Truth is, if this were MY life, that would have to mean that I was somewhat responsible for my existence.  The life I have is not my own, it is His to do as He pleases.

God bless,

Gary

Hello Gary,

Thanks for the response.  Maybe it is ALL about self and God's will for us.  Babylon is just an obstacle in our path. Let me explain what I mean through an analogy

We are put on this earth and start travelling a road. The road leads us into the world and through the babylon .  Babylon  ensnares us and we are deceived and distracted from the truth. The road through babylon is like a  never ending maze.  Some but very few of us make it to the gates leaving it behind.  

Isn't it all about how we deal with finding the truth and learning to become more like Christ.

I am still confused about babylon whether it represents the world we are to come out of which includes organized religion or is it just the religion.

Thanks
feat

[orion77]

Harryfeat,

Hello, I can certainly understand the confusion on this subject, seeing there are so many different interpretations.  It's so easy to show scripture to support both sides of many different beliefs, yet now we know in part.  

Most importantly, whatever it is we come out of, now we are to move on to maturity which is to develope the kind of love God has for us.  And to show this kind of love towards others.  I believe this is paramount and the basic foundation to the gospel of Christ.

Although now we see in part, we have the assurance through faith, which is a gift from God, that the day will come we shall have a full and complete knowledge of our Maker.

Sorry, I can't give you a more full explanation of this, yet when we know of the love of God and then proceed to show this to our fellow man, then I believe we have definetly come out of babylon.

God bless,

Gary

[worm]

someone once said that "people will never listen to you until they know how much you care"...or something like that

I'd rather deal with my fellow brothers and sisters, whether they are called or chosen or faithful or churchgoers or non-believers,  in the spirit of love...there is no greater power in the universe...cause God Himself IS love...that way I'm always sure that I act in a Godly (Christ in me) way towards ALL people...

when did this rebuking everybody that doesn't agree with you thing started? and who's to say the rebukers have all the answers?

a few posters have tried to justify that there should be division between people...isn't this the very model that was shown to us in the churches?

a lot of churches reckon they are right, and only them...and have all the knowledge..and all the blessings...and any other church is just not cutting it..and I see the same with websites (or internet churches as I call them)...not even the most prominent UR sites agree with each other's doctrines...

I'm sick of people proclaiming they walk with Christ but then judging others according to their own beliefs...or where they are at at the moment...

I agree with Orion77 when he says that he sticks with loving God with all his heart and his neighbour like himself...if we can't even carry out that simple command of Christ...what then of the called vs chosen vs us vs them and all doctrinal issues...these things don't matter...

if we don't have the LOVE...we have NOTHING...cause God IS LOVE
plain and simple

[worm]

I am still confused about babylon whether it represents the world we are to come out of which includes organized religion or is it just the religion.

hey Harryfeat,
the way I see it is...Babylon is a condition of the heart (I explained in the thread Church vs Babylon)...evil and confusion starts in our hearts, and it is from there that we have to come out of first and foremost...if its a Spiritual thing that is...well, that's what I believe...

[jennie]

I have to share this here. I used to have a pretty bad drinking problem as a teen-ager. Thank the good Lord He intervened and I stopped a long time ago. Several years after this, we felt a need to go into the local bar. We didn't  have a drink except cola but sat down with some patrons and  chatted with them. All that we talked to made the comment to us that " ya'll are Christians right? Why do you want to even sit and talk with me, a drunk?'. We were not there to preach to anyone and just said to them that God is working in all our lives and that He will take care of us all at the end. We were asked why we were not ashamed to talk to them and why God even would care about some bar goers. Our response was that we were honored to have these individuals be willing to spend time with us and not be ashamed to talk to us! We also told them that God sees no difference in any person and had a pleasant evening. The sad thing was the wonder of the patrons that we were not ashamed to sit with them and chat. We are all still " a work in progress". We are all still loved by God. For anyone reading... that evening was another example of why the "churches" in our area don't welcome my husband or myself.

[Karen]

When I come upon one who doesnt see as I do. I do not treat them different, I love them. They love Jesus, as I love them. Jesus has not openned their eyes to see. There are people who do not know Jesus or go to Church. They are apart of this world. I befriend them, but I do not go to there level. I only answer questions that one asks me, if they do not ask, I do not force what I believe on no man. Jesus said I am the Light and the Salt of the earth. That I should leave my life through Him. to be a example to others,by how I live. There has been a time I battled with a man. To find the Lord telling me to back away. I wasnt going to get that person to believe the way I did. I love all and when the spirit says to back away I do. God knows the hearts of all this people. Thats why He said to pray for all. Thats what I do. Father, thy will be done in this world. Let His will be done in each individuals life. ~Karen~

[rocky]

I am still confused about babylon whether it represents the world we are to come out of which includes organized religion or is it just the religion.

hey Harryfeat,
the way I see it is...Babylon is a condition of the heart (I explained in the thread Church vs Babylon)...evil and confusion starts in our hearts, and it is from there that we have to come out of first and foremost...if its a Spiritual thing that is...well, that's what I believe...

Spiritual babylon, with the beast on the throne.  Pride, deceitfulness.  Yeah, I agree.  

Praise God for his grace, that in His timing, kicks the beasts butt.  As gmilk earlier said; i must decrease so he must increase.  I thank God for mature men/women who have not thrown me out and trampled on me, but have gently pulled me along.  

These men never once "hopped into bed with me" and drank of the whore, but they did love me with the love of Christ.  They were seperate, yet present.  I only hope that as I mature, Christ in me will do the same.  Christ (in and through me) administering reconciliation.    

Mike V is a great example of this, his love is expressed in his emails to me.  Just like his conferences; isnt' he preaching to babylon.  I highly doubt that everyone at a conference is fully mature and out of babylon.  I'll bet he even has lunch with them too.

Christ in you, our hope of glory.

[eutychus]

Mike V, his love is evedent for sure.


hey rocky, what me pull a rabbit outa my hat ;-]





love
chuckt

[hillsbororiver]

Mike V, his love is evedent for sure.


hey rocky, what me pull a rabbit outa my hat ;-]





love
chuckt

LOL

[Harryfeat]

Mike V, his love is evedent for sure.


hey rocky, what me pull a rabbit outa my hat ;-]





love
chuckt

Hello euty,

Boris and Natasha send their love.  Me too.


feat

[Deedle]

if we don't have the LOVE...we have NOTHING...cause God IS LOVE
plain and simple

Rev 3:19  
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Heb 12:5  
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

Heb 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Heb 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Heb 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons.

Heb 12:10  For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Heb 12:11  Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Tit 2:11  For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,

Tit 2:12  teaching [chastening] us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

Tit 2:13  looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Tit 2:14  who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

Tit 2:15  Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.

Tit 1:13  This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

2Ti 4:2  Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

1Ti 5:20  Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Paul rebuked in love.

1Co 6:5  I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

1Co 15:33  Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

1Co 15:34  Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Gal 3:1  O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Gal 3:3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

1Ti 1:20  Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

1Co 5:3  For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present.

1Co 5:4  In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,

1Co 5:5  I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1Co 5:6 Your boasting is not good Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?

Gal 5:9  A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.  

1Co 5:7  Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.

Rebuke, chastening/discipline are all a part of true love. As my wife always says; "love is an action".

Heb 5:13  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Heb 5:14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

In Love  :wink:
Deedle

[love_magnified]

It is a typical trait for someone being rebuked to say that the one who rebukes is not doing so out of love. That is sad. I have never been rebuked in that way by Ray, but he did straighten me out pretty quickly on a couple things. I listened, and he was right.

[eutychus]

(((Paul rebuked in love.)))

amen,  i bet we all can qoute  abunch of scriptures for our point of view.


Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.


2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth


1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:


1Cr 4:21 What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and [in] the spirit of meekness?


Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.




frank is right, lets be carfull but not fearfull.

if we are grounded and rooted in love nobody can take that away, and we can stand in Christ and let the sword do the work.


peace
chuckt