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[chav]

Does God hate sinners ?

In his classic sermon, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God,Johnathon Edwards simply affirmed biblical truth about God's attitude toward the unrepentant:

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment....O sinner! Consider the fearful danger you are in: it is a great furnace of wrath, a wide and bottomless pit, full of the fire of wrath, that you are held over in the hand of that God, whose wrath is provoked and incensed as much against you, as against many of the damned in hell. You hang by a slender thread, with the flames of divine wrath flashing about it, and ready every moment to singe it, and burn it asunder...

I have inserted this extract from Johnathon Edwards classic (so called) sermon regarding God's attitude towards unbelievers . I have been following a debate on another forum where this sermon is often cited as one of the greatest sermons ever preached.Personally I think it's garbage, however this is being used to claim that God hates and detests sinners ,and such scriptures as Psalm 5:5 are being used to substantiate that view.
The boastful shall not stand before your eyes;you hate all evil doers Psa 5:5
My question is when God says he hates evil doers , the wicked etc what does he mean ? Some seem to suggest that a God who is Love ,also hates at the same time. Personally I don't buy it , but such verse as Psa 5:5 are being used to justify some pretty extreme behaviour in some quarters .The religious world really is a place of insanity.

Dave UK

[andrevan]

Hi Dave

I suggest you listen to Ray's audio on "Love" in the Introductions & Announcements Section as a starter, it may help you with this topic.

here is the link: http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2641.0.html

God bless.

Andrevan.

[hillsbororiver]

Jonathon Edwards seemed to be a very unhappy, vengeful type of person. A Baptist preacher sent me one of his articles and I was struck by how little scripture and how much supposition he used in his hateful papers. I read this shortly after "stumbling" onto Bible Truths but even then I could see the huge contrast in what Ray writes (with many scriptural witnesses) in regard to the hope and master plan of God and what folks like Edwards write (doom, despair, torture) with little scriptural authority behind it.

Peace,

Joe

[jennie]

Ya'll I had to take a religion class in college and I know I have heard of Jonathon Edwards but I don't remember who he is. Any help? 
Also what is the Adventist belief? Sorry for the ignorance. Our family doc. is Seventh Day Adventist but all I know is he goes to church on saturday and doesn't eat meat. Thanks, Jennie

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Jennie,

The Adventists believe in the literal Sabbath keeping on Saturday, they consider it "the sign and seal of the living God" and state that keeping the literal Sabbath is an absolute requirement for salvation.

They also believe in annihilation rather than an eternal hell with the unsaved burning until they are extinguished, the measure of evil and sin in their lives determines how long they burn before becoming non existent.

They believe (there has been some backtracking on this of late after it became clear E.G White plagiarized many of her wrtings) Ellen G. White was a letter day prophet whose writings are on par with or equal to scripture.

Only vegetarians will be translated (not die) to heaven at Christ's return.

Pork and shellfish (and other foods) are "unclean" and not to be eaten, chicken, beef are OK but not suited for spiritual development, basically the old Mosaic diet plus E.G. White's declaration that vinegar, coffee, tea, etc. will also buy you a ticket to that big BBQ on "the last day."

There are many other doctrines they have that would take a lot of time to explain, they are just like the rest of the denominations in regard to not seeing the spiritual as they are blinded by the physical.

Hope this helps a little,

Joe

[PKnowler]

Pork and shellfish (and other foods) are "unclean" and not to be eaten, chicken, beef are OK but not suited for spiritual development, basically the old Mosaic diet plus E.G. White's declaration that vinegar, coffee, tea, etc. will also buy you a ticket to that big BBQ on "the last day."

Joe

Oh man, Joe, don't forget cocoa and cinnamon, they are stimulants, and are included on the list of don'ts for strict Adventists.
The substitute would be caradom (sp?) and carob. yuk!

I was reduced to looking for molecules of lard ( mono and diglycerides and rennet) in food before I ate it.
You know if you trespass a part of the law you break the whole law. If you knowingly eat a pork molecule you are guilty of eating the whole pig!   

Oh the freedom! Pass the spare ribs. 

~Paula

[hillsbororiver]

Paula,

Yes, thanks for the reminders of the irrational attention to these specks of physical details despite the admonishments from our Lord;

Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
 
Mat 15:18  But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Thanks for the reminder! 

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Joe,

  I would never make it as an Adventist.  I love my spare ribs and rib-eye steak too much.  I noticed chocholate was not on your list, but I am sorry got to have my steak and stuff. 

  Interesting thread to say the least.

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire

[hillsbororiver]

Joe,

  I would never make it as an Adventist.  I love my spare ribs and rib-eye steak too much.  I noticed chocholate was not on your list, but I am sorry got to have my steak and stuff. 

  Interesting thread to say the least.

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire

No chocolate, salt, carbonated beverages or many other things.

It is amazing when looking back,

Joe

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Joe,

  Wow, your description of no chocholate, carbonated bevarages, and all that seems to me that is hell for me.  I love my food, and probably a little too much.   

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire

[skydreamers]

Hi Guys

Paula you crack me up!:

Oh the freedom! Pass the spare ribs.

I came to be a Christian through the Adventist church as well, about 7 years ago.  But I've always been rebellious and non-conformist by nature and thankfully never bought into many of their "rules'.  I remember the day I got baptized, I heard a lady in the crowd say to her friend (loud enough so I could hear) "Boy I hope she's going to get rid of all those piercings and jewellery now!"  I felt suddenly terribly uncomfortable, but thankfully my Pastor was more of the "liberal" kind and he told me not to worry about it. 

As for Ellen White, I always really enjoyed her writings and at least she didn't write hateful scary things like this Jonathon Edwards guy.  But I realized early on that she wasn't the "final authority" on anything.  I never did fully understand the 1844 Investigative Judgment teaching, or at least I didn't see it in scripture.  But her book "Desire of Ages" always made me cry and I thought it was beautifully written.  But I remember finding out stuff about her like her plagiarizing and her eating oysters!  (something she forbid others to do)  Very bizarre.

But I remember being taught in the church that "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner".  I always found comfort in that.

Peace and God Bless, Diana

[PKnowler]

Hi Diana,

   I thought the funny part was: If you knowingly eat a pork molecule you are guilty of eating the whole pig!  I got a little chuckle when I wrote it! But it's the way I was taught.

I do appreciate my background and where I come from but I am so thankful that God has set me free! God has us all go through different things in life for a purpose to teach us. There were things taught in the SDA church that helped me at that time in my life.
I always appreciated that teaching that Hell didn't last forever but was a merited punishment and then annihilation. It seemed more merciful. So even when I came out of the Church I had a hard time with the eternal torment doctrine. I am so thankful to now know that Christ is truly our Redeemer and that all will come to the knowledge of the truth and be redeemed one day.

I was somewhat of a nonconformist myself because I didn't revere Ellen White. It always bothered me the way people exalted her. I've only read 2 books of hers- Desires of Ages and Steps to Christ. I did enjoy then both though, they were very edifying.

Bless you! 
~Paula

[YellowStone]

Hi Diana

I agree with what you wrote : "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner".  I too always found that comforting. It is very similar to that of the "love / hate" relationship between good parents and their children.

For as a parent, I love my son so very much, but some of the things he does..... urrrgh!! 

Just because you love someone, does not mean that you have to agree with, or love what they do. If that were true, the love could not be freely given, because it would be constrained.

Great Post,
Darren

[SandyFla]

That sermon reminds me of Fred Phelps and his family.

"God hates fags" and "Thank God for dead soldiers" ... what a god of hate they serve!!!

Sandy

[SandyFla]

Does God hate sinners ?

In his classic sermon, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God,Johnathon Edwards simply affirmed biblical truth about God's attitude toward the unrepentant:

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment...

That sounds like something a kid would do. No wonder I grew up believing that God was holding a stick over my head, just waiting ... no, salivating ... for the chance to gleefully crush me at his first opportunity. Sorta like Clint Eastwood: "Go ahead--make my day!"

Sandy

[iris]

Sandy,

You sound like a Clint Eastwood fan...







    


Iris

[Robin]

does God hate sinners ?

Luke 6:34-36

34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.  
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

[rick]

Did God "hate" us (we are all sinners) so much He sent His only Son to be brutalized and die on a cross? some people will never realize the extent of Gods love because they truly want God to love them and hate others. charles spurgeon said send me your surveyors with all their measuring tools and i will tell them to map the universe which they will do. But when I ask them to map the love of God, they will say it is too vast to measure..........