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[PKnowler]

I sent my husband a copy of the email to Ray, that Sandy posted, for his review and this is his reply:

Hello Paula,
 
I currently believe that the core Universalism Extortionist idea (all dogs go to heaven) is something that should be discussed and debated in Christendom however it should not be an issue we should divide over. From my perspective there are three sides to this coin.
 
Tails Side: If people have options after death then thats a pretty heavy subject to discuss and debate. With everything you and I have discussed to date, I am not persuaded to believe along these lines. I admit that I am not perfect and could be wrong however I  work with the overwhelming information that I have to believe that this is not an option. I would suggest that you take a position that you could be wrong as well.
 
Heads Side: Most of Christendom currently believe that we do not have options after death. Because of that belief, it becomes a matter of life and death (spiritually speaking) that proper decisions for Christ are made and transacted before one dies.
 
Error Side: This is this logical side to all of this. If one did not know anything about God and his purposes and was, for the first time, told of all this with both lines of thought. a) That people who accept Jesus on this side will go to heaven and, b) the rest will go though a non-eternal hell fire AND then be welcomed into heaven. What do you suppose the average person would ultimately decide? I strongly believe that under these circumstances, MANY, would opt for the path of least resistance, selecting the Tails option and slide through life on the thought that they could reject Christ here, during their lifetime, but God will make them right sometime after they die. From a purely LOGICAL analysis, one will always have a nagging thought, what if I am wrong!!! Well, I contend that in these situations; if you were wrong with option Tails but selected Heads, Christ would welcome you into heaven. If however you choose option Tails and rejected Heads AND you were wrong, Christ would sadly inform you that He never knew you and have you eternally removed from his presence.
 
Hope this helps,
 
Tony

[Craig]

But he misses the point that nearly all christians do when emailing Ray. 

They think that Christ will welcome them with open arms, no matter what they do.  NO, the lake of fire will be difficult and refining and at the time, I dare say not pleasant.

And they will not reject Christ.

Craig

[hillsbororiver]

I send my husband the email to Ray, that Sandy posted, for his review and this is his reply:

Hello Paula,
 
I currently believe that the core Universalism Extortionist idea (all dogs go to heaven) is something that should be discussed and debated in Christendom however it should not be an issue we should divide over. From my perspective there are three sides to this coin.
 
Tails Side: If people have options after death then thats a pretty heavy subject to discuss and debate. With everything you and I have discussed to date, I am not persuaded to believe along these lines. I admit that I am not perfect and could be wrong however I will work with the overwhelming information that I have to believe that this is not an option. I would suggest that you take a position that you could be wrong as well.
 
Heads Side: Most of Christendom currently believe that we do not have options after death. Because of that belief, it becomes a matter of life and death (spiritually speaking) that proper decisions for Christ are made and transacted before one dies.
 
Error Side: This is this logical side to all of this. If one did not know anything about God and his purposes and was, for the first time, told of all this with both lines of thought. a) That people who accept Jesus on this side will go to heaven and, b) the rest will go though a non-eternal hell fire AND then be welcomed into heaven. What do you suppose the average person would ultimately decide? I strongly believe that under these circumstances, MANY, would opt for the path of least resistance, selecting the Tails option and slide through life on the thought that they could reject Christ here, during their lifetime, but God will make them right sometime after they die. From a purely LOGICAL analysis, one will always have a nagging thought, what if I am wrong!!! Well, I contend that in these situations; if you were wrong with option Tails but selected Heads, Christ would welcome you into heaven. If however you choose option Tails and rejected Heads AND you were wrong, Christ would sadly inform you that He never knew you and have you eternally removed from his presence.
 
Hope this helps,
 
Tony

Hi Paula,

I have read the many e-mails Ray receives when someone says "if there is no hell why not rape, steal, kill" and a host of other things as if the only way to serve God is out of fear of hell and eternal torment. Those who understand our ultimate redemption whether it be here on earth in the present life or in the Lake of Fire we serve God out of love for Him and the gift of His Son. If one truly loves God they start losing the desire and begin to hate the sins they are or were prone to, not shout for joy that they are free to do these sinful things.

Even in this life we do not gain love through threats, we may obtain a grudging compliance but I would hardly call it love when fear of brutalization is the motivator.



John 14:23  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Until a person's eyes are opened to the Truth that is the ultimate and total victory that is Christ's they will not see what scripture plainly states such as;

1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
1Ti 4:10  For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.

His Peace and Comfort to you,

Joe

[CEO]

Paula

     Tony says 'you could be wrong.'  Soooooo , don't go with the strength of your convictions.  Instead, be smart and doubt the truth that has been revealed to you. just in case.  Cover all your bases, options I , II, III .  Be open to many interpretations , be lukewarm to them all.

     Tony is not far along on his journey.  We have great news, Tony will come to know the truth and the love which we are getting to enjoy now. 

                                                                   Askseeknock

                                                                    Charlie O

[hillsbororiver]

Another thought on this using an analogy that Ray has used in some of his articles;

Would any of us discipline or punish our children with eternal torture for doing wrong? Would those who hold fast to the hell doctrine do this or think of doing this?

Do imperfect human beings have a better and more unconditional love than our Lord and our Father has for His children?

Job 4:17  Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[YellowStone]

Another thought on this using an analogy that Ray has used in some of his articles;

Would any of us discipline or punish our children with eternal torture for doing wrong? Would those who hold fast to the hell doctrine do this or think of doing this?

Do imperfect human beings have a better and more unconditional love than our Lord and our Father has for His children?

Job 4:17  Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

Brother Joe,

This is a wonderful point. "Would any of us discipline or punish our children with eternal torture ......"

Well I must say that I certainly would not, and neither do I know any who would even consider do such. Why is this?

I think we can find the reason in the Scriptures.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:.... 
Gen 1:27  So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

From this we can learn, that at some level we are like God, and where more so than at the lowest level of morality in not ever considering torturing our children, relentlessly and always.

Surely, if at this level we do show compassion and decency to our Children, is it not INSANE to not consider that our God and Father would not do the same?

Just thoughts from my heart. Comments are always welcome

Love in Christ,
Darren

[PKnowler]

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and comments regarding my husbands email.
It is very frustrating that my husband can't see these truths yet but I try and not
preach to him beyond what he wants to hear because I know that only God can open his eyes.

I do believe that God is working with him though and he is thinking about these things.
Occasionally he will come to me and ask me what "Universalist" believe about something.

The last question he asked me was what "Univeralist" believe about the unpardonable sin.
It was a short conversation. When I asked him what he thought the unpardonable sin
was- we agreed it must be the rejection of Christ. Because there is no other way by which
man is saved. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father but
through Jesus. Well we know that one day every knee shall bow and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of the Father- so none will forever reject Christ. So there
won't be any unpardonable sin. There was nothing more to say!

You are right Joe and Darren it is beyond comprehension to think that God would
punish his children in Hell's fire forever with no relief or redemptive purpose. 

That's a great scripture you quoted Joe:
Job 4:17  Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

That was pretty funny Charlie O the way you put that about covering all your bases.
It's pretty ridiculous when you think about it. I don't believe people are going to be sent to
Hell to burn forever because they believe the wrong thing because God has not opened
their eyes to His truths. Then it becomes a salvation of works by "us" needed to figure out ALL
the right answers to be saved. Thank God that we are saved through what Jesus did on the cross,
not because of what we do!