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GRATITUDE

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Deborah-Leigh:
Thank you all for the valuable witness to the Sovereignty of God to which I would like to add:

Ray wrote this in his teaching on Praying by God's rules and Tim this might also further help to answer your questions.

Now then, if it was God's intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, and God inspires you to pray for that favor then it will surely be given to you. If on the other hand, if it was not God's intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, then no amount of praying will cause God to grant it to you.

We see in Kat's experience that this is what Kat suffered first hand. Thank you for sharing  your precious memory with us Kat.   Jesus also asked God to let the cup pass from Him. This teaching that Ray gives to us all is not taught in Christiandom! It should be because many suffer under the mis-understanding that God is remote, removed and indifferent and not responsible for us!  In  instances of prayer not getting God to do what we want, God's intention is perfectly established through His plan and His reward is prepared for those He chooses.

Ray also writes : No prayer has ever changed God's plan or purpose in any way whatsoever.

This is not meant to deflate or bring appathy to  prayer life! On the contrary! ;D Note, Ray also writes :

When God wants to answer someone's prayer, the first thing He will always do is inspire (cause) that person TO PRAY. How can God answer a "prayer" if someone doesn't "pray"? god can bless us and do favors for us, but God cannot answer our prayers, if we don'tpray. That is why I get excited when I feel inspired to pray, as I am encouraged that God is getting ready to bless or favor me in some way.

This may appear to be a contradiction but it is not.....

God draws us to turn to Him and we just have to come to the realisation of when it is HE dragging us to turn to Him or when He is inspiring confidence in Him in us. We also need to know the difference and when it is us trying drag HIM into agreement with our percieved needs or agendas!

This is why this subject is so important to contemplate, meditate and ask/pray God for His Wisdom so we can understand HIM and come to know HIM and revere His Sovereignty and trust His love for us.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

Chris R:
Hello Folks,

Just as sure as God ordains the things in our life from the beginning, he also "causes" us to pray for  these things. So in effect it is God that causes us to pray for those things which he gives us in the first place.

Chris R

skydreamers:
This is such a great thread, thank you Arcturus for starting it!

For me, there was an initial period after my eyes were beginning to open that my mind went blank when I tried to pray for myself or others about anything specific...I didn't know how to do it anymore!  I didn't know how to ask.  I talked to God all the time in my head about things that I was learning or about His word etc, but when it came to people and their needs I was at a loss.  It took me a little time to see what all of you are talking about.

Ray's paper on prayer made it that much clearer.  I completely realize that God's will WILL be done, regardless of what I pray, so I strive to be in agreement with whatever God has in store for me or others, and just ask that He give us the strength to endure.  It is natural I think to want to pray for the health and happiness of those we care for, and I still do that.  But I do it with the acknowledgment that this health and happiness will come when God ordains, even if it means it won't happen until after the Lake of Fire.  Health is just another definition of the Greek word for "salvation".  And we know that everyone will eventually receive this.

It is comforting to know that afflictions in this life really are for our benefit.  So when a loved one is going through a trial I am secretly excited for them.  Not that I enjoy their suffering or want this for them, but I know that God is moving in their life, so I pray for them that the trial will bring them that much closer to the "peaceful fruit of righteousness". 


--- Quote ---Realizing that all is of God, including the good and the bad, the lessons that were easy and the ones that were horrid; allows us all to see that because of them has us here today at Bible-Truths.
--- End quote ---

Amen to that!


--- Quote ---What we accomplish (or should I say God accomplishes in us) through prayer is our own growth into conscious agreement with God's will/plan for our own life and for the rest of His creation.
--- End quote ---

Josh that is so profound!


--- Quote ---God draws us to turn to Him and we just have to come to the realisation of when it is HE dragging us to turn to Him or when He is inspiring confidence in Him in us. We also need to know the difference and when it is us trying drag HIM into agreement with our percieved needs or agendas!
--- End quote ---

Yes, there is a huge lesson in this Arcturus!

If God is inspiring us to pray in the first place, then even if He influences us to pray for something He knows will not come to pass, He is teaching and disciplining us through this.  Kat, you did not get angry at God because He didn't save your baby, but there are many that would have.  Confusion and even anger at God are likely much needed and necessary steps in certain people (as only God knows exactly what each person needs to go through to be brought to His likeness).  I see it as part of the "experience of evil" that humbles us.  While I have never been angry at God either (that I can remember) there was a time when I was indifferent to God.  Boy, that was an empty yet evil experience! 

But as you said Darren, all of the things in our lives has brought us to this point.  I strive to lace each prayer with gratitude and practice this feeling in my heart, because I know a day may come when I'll need to hold fast to this attitude of gratitude during tribulations yet in the future.

Peace,
Diana

dogcombat:
I can echo what's in this thread.  I noted a similar sentiment in the Testimony link called "My Selfish Prayers".  The hard truth is not praying for OUR will but GOD'S WILL.

Ches

PKnowler:
I've enjoyed reading this thread you all, thank you!

Darren you wrote: Realizing that all is of God, including the good and the bad, the lessons that were easy and the ones that were horrid; It is good when we can trust God even when bad things happen.

Kat, Thanks for sharing your story with us. It is difficult to loose a baby especially in late pregnancy. It must have made it even more difficult to think that if you had enough faith when you prayed that God would heal your baby. It's good that you weren't angry with God though; I'm surprised that you weren't with that teaching.

It reminds me of my experiences with prayer when I was in my early 20's. I had 2 children at the time a boy and a girl, that's all I was going to have. But when my youngest boy was nearing 3 years old I started having second thoughts, thinking maybe we should have another child. I started praying about it. I was so torn about it because of the condition of the world. I believed we were in the end times also because I was married to an alcoholic.  I questioned whether it would be wrong to bring another child into the world.

 I agonized over this for months but I couldn't get the idea of having another child out of my mind but I really wanted to do God's Will. I brought it up a lot at prayer meetings and would ask for prayer. Finally someone (who was infertile) said why don't you just trust God! If He wants you to have another baby then you will have another baby. Wow! What a novel idea! I thought about it and decided to surrender and trust God. Well I had a healthy baby girl! After that I felt convicted to let go and trust God with my womb. There were other contributors along the way that solidified my decision to let go and trust God.

One of the biggest contributors that changed my way of thinking at that time, and helped me to trust in the sovereignty of God in my life, was a book I read called "Hind's Feet on High Places" by Hannah Hurnard. It’s a Christian Classic. I have only recently found out that Hannah Hurnard also believes in UR. The book is an allegory story that parallels spiritual truths. God used it to change my life.

Diana what you wrote: God knows exactly what each person needs to go through to be brought to His likeness.
That sums up the book "Hind's Feet on High Places". I highly recommend it.

Well when I got pregnant with my 4th child, my second pregnancy since trusting God. I found myself fretting a lot about the baby. I was praying compulsive prayers for the baby’s health. God confronted me that it was a sin not to trust Him. I felt like I needed to lay the baby on the altar just like Abraham did to Isaac. I fretted about it. No, I thought, I can't. I wanted the baby too much. I can't let go. I know that sounds foolish because I had trusted Him in the first place with my womb and the baby was a gift from Him. Well I finally did offer up the baby and ALL my children up, that whatever happened- my children are HIS and that I need to TRUST HIM.

Well everything went well in the pregnancy. The baby was very active and healthy. Well when I was 4 days overdue I didn't feel the baby move so I called my midwife and she had me drink orange juice and said she would be right over. When she got there I still didn't feel the baby move. She listened and there was no heartbeat. My baby had died and they didn't know why. There was no indication that anything was wrong in all my pregnancy. I just had to accept it. I can't tell you the difference it made to me that I had turned this baby over to the Lord and trusted Him. Yes, it was painful and I grieved but I also felt His love and comfort like never before! What was tragic turned into a spiritual experience filled with God’s Grace and Mercy because He taught me to trust Him. A scripture that comforted me was “were your treasure is there will be your heart also” God was helping me store up treasures in heaven as I trusted in Him.

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