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The Progression to Charity

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YellowStone:
Joe, you have touched on a very important aspect along ones journey to true understanding of God's love for us. :)

You asked:

Is Peter describing the stages one must go through to become truly "charitable?" Or can these attributes be randomly obtained? Can someone constantly make intemperate statements yet have charity? Can we question our own faith and the faith of others and still display true (agape) love and charity?

You first ask if one must go through the all tha stages to become truly charitable? The answer is dependant on ones definition of the word "truly." If the term is used as "being" charitable, then yes, one can be truly charitable, with the will and desire to constantly seek and to help others. However, if the word truly is interpreted to mean: Can one fully know and understand the only True One behind all charity, then answer can only be No. :

Can we question our own faith and the faith of others? Well this is dependant on how one classes oneself. If I or another professes to be "called" or even "chosen" by God, yet fail in any of the attributes given by Peter, then yes. :)

2Pe 1:4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine

2Pe 1:5  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
 
2Pe 1:6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
 
2Pe 1:7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
 
2Pe 1:8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
2Pe 1:9  But he that lacketh these things is blind and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Peter gives us a wonderful benchmark for use. If one is seen to be constantly failing in brotherly love, then truly they surely have become blind, for the truth is hidden from them.
Can someone have nothing more than a clue of God's plan and purpose for mankind and yet have perfect agape love which is charity

Not as long "perfect" means meeting all of the criteria the Peter lists, today, tomorrow and always. :) (Tough order in todays world)
Do we need to have patience and longsuffering before we can manifest charity or do some start with charity and work their way back?

Some of course can have charity without patience and longsuffering, but it will not be true or perfect.  All charity is of God, but motive comes from ones own heart. :)
Does true charity seek the approval of men or the will of God, do some charitable actions seem bitter to the recipient because this action is not what the recipient desires?

This is question is double sided. There are many times when an act of charity is reliant on the approval of both man and God; other times charity is "true" because it sought not to please man before God.

An example of both can be given, when a brother or sister comes to you with the the hope of an attentive ear regarding a question they may have, or advice that they seek.

If they are seeking understanding, and I as a brother show true charity by listening attentively and seeking to help, will without a doubt give my response in a approving manner so as to demonstrate brotherly kindness and charity. The brother or sister in question should feel this genuine brotherly kindness and charity. If not, surely I have failed them as well as God.

However, if a brother or sister comes to me asking for help in bending or breaking the law, then I am compelled to give an answer that is pleasing to God first, and to them second. Second, because if I show anything other than brotherly kindness and charity to this brother or sister, then I haven't truly sought the approval of God, or my brother or sister, even if the answer is not what was "wanted" and is correct in form but not spirit..
Great Thread Joe,

Comments are always welcome :)

Your brother in Christ,
Darren

Redbird:
First of all, I want to say that I take no credit for being me.  For I am one of God's creation.  But I do know this, that God loves me very much.  And I have wondered - why me???  Well, maybe because I have loved God and Jesus for as long as I can remember.  I always read the gospels, and any other words written in red, (Jesus's words) in the bible, cuz I figured what Jesus had to say was most important. The verses I pretty much lived my life by are Mathew 22; 37-40, and you know what they are~

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.  This is the first and great commandment.  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So, I started at that.  Just now, am I learning of this diligence, virtue, knowledge, temperence, patience and godliness.  (Mind you, I now also have 3 adolescent sons!)  So, I think God is teaching me the rest of the bible ~ even if it is backwards.....or is it???

In His grace,
Lisa

gmik:
I often wondered why people that weren't "christian" could be heroic, selfless, giving toward others, volunteering etc etc.

Then there would be "christians" who wouldn't lift a finger to help anyone if they didn't get something out of it.

When I first "got saved" 34 years ago, I thought I would start being more like that first group. I always thought of these verses as step one, then you can add in step 2 and eventually you got to charity which I thought was God's love.  I thought you could never actually attain it, tho.

I would hope it is a work in progress.  We as humans are prone to goof ups (His design), so I think you could say something dispariging{sp} while still trying to follow Peters advice.  Just the fact of knowing these scriptures remind me of the work yet to be done in me and one that I would keep in front of me just to measure me, in my life, personally.  Not in the whole scope of things as that is Gods will.

joyful1:
Joe-
You know I used to believe that mentally challenged people especially, and a few certain "kind" souls that come into the world now and then, truly have the "charity" that you speak of....
but if I use my own son as an example....
I've come to realize that his limited mental capacity does not allow him to KNOW the true "beastly" me that is his mother...God does....and He is letting ME see ME for what I am...but my son simply and completely TRUSTS me and LOVES me with no questions whatsoever....but he doesn't KNOW me, as Jesus does....
I have come to the conclusion that true CHARITY (agape love) comes to a person who KNOWS who you are and doesn't let that get in the way....indeed, loves you more because they UNDERSTAND who you are....and what it will take to change you....and they have that hope for you....
so ...I would have to say that agape love is an attribute of a mature (perfect) Christian, and comes after UNDERSTANDING all the other attributes that you've listed, regardless of the order in which they are attained.
Joyce :)

Deborah-Leigh:
Joyce

I have just completed listening to Ray’s Repentance video part 2 and I can see there is some bearing on what you mention about the beast and knowing it is there or not knowing it at all as in mentally challenged persons. I do not think mentally challenged people see either the mote or the beam...they just see yesterday today and tomorrow all in one perhaps?

Anyway for those of us who are not mentally challenged Ray explained something very interesting that I think can add to this discussion.

 Ray reveals that where Jesus says
Matt 7 : 4 ..how can you say to your brother, Let me get the tiny particle out of your eye, when there is the beam of timber in your own eye?

Ray explains how. He says that if you have a beam of timber in your eye, you will only see a tiny particle in your brother’s eye. But if you take out the timber in your eye you will soon see that the little particle in your brother’s eye is also a beam of timber!

Ray explains that God makes vessels for honour and dishonour and the vessels of honour he will harden or have mercy on.

From this I recall that we are the beast and need to repent because we are guilty of carnality. 

When the beam is out of our eyes we will see and know that man is carnal and guilty. We will know and be grateful to God for His mercy on us and we will judge not knowing that we could be anyone of those vessels appointed to Gods wrath. We can not make a vessel of wrath into a vessel for Gods honour but we can discern the difference and in that discernment grow in humble gratitude towards God for His mercy towards us for truly there for the grace of God go we.

Rev 22 : 11 He who is unrighteous, unjust, wicked, let him be unrighteous still; and he who is filthy vile, impure, LET HIM be filthy still: and he who is righteous, just, upright, in right standing with God, LET HIM do right still; and he who is holy, LET HIM be holy still.
Only by the foolishness of preaching can God work a vessel into becoming what He pre-ordains it to become. It is Christ that brings the reward. We can increase in our gratitude towards God that we are not made for wrath and in this way the world can grow strangely dim and those who are in the world can likewise become the same as our eyes open more and more to behold the Glory of Gods holy Son.

When we realise that we can not change people because as Ray points out, that a person changed against his will is of the same opinion still,...and if we are not being asked,it is for us to move on in the realization that each to their own and LET HIM BE as stated in Revelations becomes a very   valuable way to keep our peace!



Peace to you

Arcturus :)

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