Faith and Belief: A Revelation

[YellowStone]

Good morning All,

I have something to share with you all that came to me last night. Several weeks ago I became very sick; fever, muscle ache and total fatigue. It took about a month to get over it. Well Saturday afternoon, for no apparent reason it returned.

I knew there had to be a reason for it to come back, not physical but spiritual. God was trying to tell me something. Well of course I prayed for understanding and that I would get better. Here was the catch. I needed to get better for an event today that had been planned for several weeks. All the while, I was praying, I was adding "if it is your will" and never believing that God would actually do anything, what with his busy schedule and all.

Well last night, I was running another fever (101) and I could hardly move without something hurting. So I started praying to God. It was quite funny actually, because I told him that I had "no idea" what his message was. Then it hit me right betweeen the eyes; I had to "believe" Not in God's time, but the time I requested of him. What a revelation that turned out to be, I laughed at my ignorance. My fever broke less than 5 minutes later, I no longer have a sore throat or muscle ache, etc.

Christ himself said:

Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

He is there for us, all we have to do is BELIEVE. It is not wrong to ask for something we need, but it is wrong to NOT expect it to happen, for there is little faith in that. For four days I prayed, and only got worse, the moment that I believed (KNEW) God would heal/cure my ailments by this morning, the healing began.

So my brothers and Sisters, I had to share this with you all. I learned a very valuable lesson. Many of you may have already knew this, but the light sure went on for me.

Love in Christ,
Darren

[Redbird]

Darren,

HOW MARVELOUS FOR YOU!!!

Mathew 13:58  And he did NOT MANY MIGHTY WORKS there because of their UNBELIEF.
Mark 6:5-6       And he could there do NO MIGHTY WORK, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. 
                      And he marveled because of their UNBELIEF.  And he went round about the villages, teaching.

Mathew 9:27-28  And when he came into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus said unto them, BELIEVE ye that I am
                         able to do this? They said unto him, YEA, LORD. Then touched he their eyes, saying, ACCORDING TO YOUR
                         FAITH be it unto you.
2 Th  2:13          But we are bound to give thanks always TO GOD for you, brethren beloved of the LORD, because God hath from
                         the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and BELIEF OF THE TRUTH;

My heart rejoices in your new found revelation.
Lisa

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Darren,

  YOu have hit on a great Truth.  You have found out one of the secrets to time, in the fact it does NOT exist, and that all time is the here and now for God.  So that when we go to him in prayer, it is answered.  I am not sure if I am offline here, but I do not think so.  Thanks for sharing this with us.

  Glad you are feeling better.

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire

[YellowStone]

Thank you both so much Lisa and Anne

Lisa, the Scripture you presented is wonderful.

2 Th  2:13          But we are bound to give thanks always TO GOD for you, brethren beloved of the LORD, because God hath from
                         the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and BELIEF OF THE TRUTH;

For how strong is my belief if I do not believe my prayers will be answered. I have read quite often on this board, that we shouldn't pray for anything unless it is God's own Will that it should happen.

Brothers and Sisters, I feel that this in itself is possibly the GREATEST fallacy reagarding true faith known.

For Christ did not say:  If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you, providing my Father and I feel that you are worthy.

That is a limitation placed on prayer in order to justify ones limited faith. While ever, one closes in prayer with "but I expect this only if it is according to your will." Clearly demonstrates that one does not believe what was asked will be granted. What we are truly telling God, is that "I do not really expect you to grant my wishes, so I will be politically correct and close with only if you want to!" Guess what, faith like this get's what faith like this deserves....God perhpas say's: "okay, I don't want!"

Faith IS NOT CONDITIONAL my brothers and sisters. Christ posed no limitations on prayer other than belief and faith without belief is as nothing.

Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Anne, you too have hit on a wonderful truth. God is ageless inasmuch as time indeed does not exist for Him. How could it, he is outside the confines of time.

Dear brothers and sisters, comments are truly welcome regarding this truhful revelation.

Love in Christ to all,
Darren

[Craig]

For Christ did not say:  If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you, providing my Father and I feel that you are worthy.

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you

Darren you answered your question right there.  If you are of Christ and Chist is in you, then your prayers will be such that they will be answered.  If that is not the case, then you can pray and have all the faith you can muster and if it is not God's will, it ain't going to happen.  Very few times are any of us, of Christ and Christ in us.  We strive for this and labor under the yoke of our carnal being, but our flesh, is too often the case, not one with Christ.

but I expect this only if it is according to your will

Isn't this what Christ prayed in the Garden, not my will but the Fathers will?  Obviously Christ was at His weakest in the human flesh and he did not want to die the horrible death He did, could the Father have answered the prayer to let the cup pass from Him?  Yes, did he? No.  Because in this moment of weakness Christ knew that the Fathers will would be done.

Ray's prayer article does a wonderful job (I believe) in explaining prayer.

Blessings
Craig

[Rene]

Hi Darren,

Thanks for sharing.  Excellent reminder.  I'm glad to hear you are feeling better.

This topic reminds me of several scriptures whereby Jesus admonished His disciples by calling them "O Ye of little faith"
(Matt. 6:30, Matt. 8:26, Matt. 14:31).  I have been guilty of this too many times myself.

Peace and His grace to you,

Rene'

[YellowStone]

For Christ did not say: If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you, providing my Father and I feel that you are worthy.

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you

Darren you answered your question right there. If you are of Christ and Chist is in you, then your prayers will be such that they will be answered. If that is not the case, then you can pray and have all the faith you can muster and if it is not God's will, it ain't going to happen. Very few times are any of us, of Christ and Christ in us. We strive for this and labor under the yoke of our carnal being, but our flesh, is too often the case, not one with Christ.

but I expect this only if it is according to your will

Isn't this what Christ prayed in the Garden, not my will but the Fathers will? Obviously Christ was at His weakest in the human flesh and he did not want to die the horrible death He did, could the Father have answered the prayer to let the cup pass from Him? Yes, did he? No. Because in this moment of weakness Christ knew that the Fathers will would be done.

Ray's prayer article does a wonderful job (I believe) in explaining prayer.

Blessings
Craig

Craig, I see your point and I agree with you.

To your first point, if Christ is in us, then we will surely know what to pray for. I do not think that praying to win lotto is a prayer that should be asked, because the riches of God do not equate to the riches of man; however, praying for the riches of God is another matter.

Your second point is interesting. Yes, Jesus said, not as my will but the Fathers will be done. Jesus walked the Earth as a Man, he was 100% a man, no question about it; however, he was also a man like no other. He knew what was to happen eons before he came to Earth as a man. You are right, as a man he did not ewant to suffer the indignation, humility and pain and ultimately death! Why would he? He was a man, he felt everything, only he must have felt it more than he, because surely such as he endured was totally foreign to his perfect body. I cannot even imagine what Jesus knew was going to happen to him and how that must of made him feel. Did he not cry tears of blood?

The fact is, that Jesus came to Earth knowing that he would one day die and on the third day, his God would rise him from the tomb. He would not save himself, for he was a man and as a man, he died. The whole Bible is based on the coming of the Messiah, his life, his death and his second coming.

We however, do not have the luxury of knowing what will or will not happen. God has not told us. We are not one with God as Christ/Jesus is.

Craig, I agree with you that Christ knew that God's will would be done. Just as I know his will is always going to be done. Almost the entire Scriptures talk about Faith, but one cannot have Faith without belief.

Ephesians 1:15-23
15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints,
16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers.
17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit* of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.
18 I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,
19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength,
20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,
21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.
22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,
23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Paul keeps asking God that He may give of His Spirit. This is God's will. God does not need to hear the "if it is your will clause" because it is a given.

Belief is more than saying: "I believe!" Rather it is the living, the feeling, the visualization and the utter knowledge that God will truly grant us every prayer. Is faith such as this as much as a mustard seed, I say not in the least. But it is immeasurably greater than one who has faith but no belief.

Put another way, when a child asks a parent for something, they know and understand that their request will either be granted or denied on whether or not the parent wants. Praying to God is no different other than if we are truly in him and he in us, our prayers will always be answered because this is his will.

Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Craig, I just think we are trying to regulate or restrict our faith if we do not ask 100%, believe 100% and expect 100%

Because surely, if either of these three are less than 100% then likewise is our faith. This is God's will, that we learn this.

My heartfelt thoughts only, thanks for your comments.

Your brother in Christ,
Darren

[Craig]

Craig, I just think we are trying to regulate or restrict our faith if we do not ask 100%, believe 100% and expect 100%

And have Christ in us 100%.

Remember faith is a gift from God, we can not will it on ourselves.

I know what you are saying Darren, I just want you to peel back that onion a little deeper.

Blessings

Craig

[YellowStone]

Craig, I just think we are trying to regulate or restrict our faith if we do not ask 100%, believe 100% and expect 100%

And have Christ in us 100%.

Remember faith is a gift from God, we can not will it on ourselves.

I know what you are saying Darren, I just want you to peel back that onion a little deeper.

Blessings

Craig

Yep, that was one of those unsaid givens. Because, unless Christ is in us 100% how can he abide in us and us in him 100%. Only then will how prayers be granted.

Actually, I did use this Scripture in the post you responded to.

Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Christ did not say partly or sometimes or as you feel like. As you say, Christ has to be in us 100%

Thanks for your digging a little deeper

Your brother in Christ,
Darren

[hillsbororiver]

Paul addresses this in Roman's Chapter 8;

Rom 8:26  Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession fo us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Rom 8:27  And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Praise God!

Speaking for myself I know I need all the help I can get so it is very comforting reading these verses.

Great Topic!

Joe

[Redbird]

Thank you too, Darren, for bringing this topic to light.  I just quoted the scriptures that serve as a reminder to me also.  That is what is so wonderful about the forum.  And it always feels so good when our fellow brothers and sisters compliment us too.  I hope that doesn't sound arrogant, but encouragement from one another sure does help in this crazy world!

Peace to you dear brothers and sisters,

Lisa

[YellowStone]

Joe and Lisa,

Thank you my brother for your post. I feel often an unbroken line of communication with our Father when not a word has left my mouth. I feel as if I am conversing with God, open and honestly yet totally unconsciously. As you mentioned, I am sure it is the Spirit that is speaking for me. How can one not be grateful and full of praise and love for the one who gives us every opportunity to learn love and how to love.

Lisa, my dear sister, the Scriptures you quoted were a great reminder for me also. I do not wish to detract from Ray, but God has led us all here and has clearly opened many eyes and hearts to the truth. I have learned so much from so many here, and it is easy to see why; God is clearly working in this forum and I would not trade the love or the fellowship shared amongst the brothers and sisters of this forum for anything.

Lisa, it does not sound arrogant! It sounds wonderful and is as it should be.

Thank you all for sharing in the experience given me by God.

Love to you all in Christ,
Darren

[DWIGHT]

Darren, Lisa and Joe,

Darren, my dear brother, I want to give a great big Amen to what you said about not trading this love we have here for anything.  This is the Lords doing and it's marvelous in our eyes.  Just think where we all came from, and how God in His mercy, led us together, and then shinned His light on us that we may see.  And I'll tell you what, seeing brings more brotherly love than walking in darkness could ever do.

Lisa, just like Darren said, it's not arrogance, we're boasting in Him. 

Joe, your'e right, without the Spirit helping our infirmities with groanings which cannot be uttered, we could not pray according to the will of God.

Thank God we have each other!!

In Him,

Dwight

[Jackie Lee]

Thanks Darren this helps me to understand more.
I never once thought to ask to be shown a spiritual lesson from what seemed to be an unanswered prayer.
I need to remind myself of this, when I am believing God is not hearing me or not time yet.

                                                               Jackie

[YellowStone]

Hi Darren,

Thanks for sharing.  Excellent reminder.  I'm glad to hear you are feeling better.

This topic reminds me of several scriptures whereby Jesus admonished His disciples by calling them "O Ye of little faith"
(Matt. 6:30, Matt. 8:26, Matt. 14:31).  I have been guilty of this too many times myself.

Peace and His grace to you,

Rene'

You are so right Rene'   These same verses hit me too. It is not enough to just have faith, because certainly those Christ was speaking to had a "little" faith. I have given this a lot of thought over the last several days, and I have had to adjust my thinking accordingly. I said that one had to believe in order to have true faith, but I think this is flawed. Because how strong is my faith is I believe something "might" happen?

Cross out the word "Belief" and substitute it with the word "KNOW" and Faith will now be set firmly. There is a big difference between believing and knowing in many circumstances.

When Christ said: If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. (Jhn 15:7)

He didn't say it so that one may believe, rather that one will KNOW that what is asked will be done.

Faith then has a solid foundation and will not be easily shaken.

So sorry for taking so long to respond to your post. I am feeling better

Your brother in Christ,

Darren

[GODSown1]

Hi all
       Yep this is all so AwesuM!!!, I feel PRAY! is the asking of GOD to change sumthing in His Will in a way BUT!! in a way it wont! change His Great! Plan, wen He answers it, becoz aint it by His Will We live?. Like when JESUS Prayed for Lasurus to be bort back to life for instance, Thats  my Opinion anyway  lol!, gezZ! I hope Im making sense haha!
muchLOVE!!! Pera

ps.I just thort Id better say sumthing, my beliefs at this stage anyway lol!,  Love! uz! alL TakecaRe!!!