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Author Topic: Word of God burning old doctrines...  (Read 6535 times)

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skydreamers

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Word of God burning old doctrines...
« on: March 20, 2007, 12:59:33 AM »

Hi All,

Reading what Dwight wrote in another post made me think of a list I am presently compiling.  Here's what Dwight wrote:

Quote
...all the old doctrine that we learned in Christianity concerning even eschatology needs to burned out of us too.  Ray has said that there is not one doctrine in Christianity that is scriptural.  So far as I can tell, by what he has written, it's true.  I am ready to have it all burned out of me....

...I have this feeling that we are about to be blown away....hey, that's fine with me....blow this carnal mind of mine right out of here.  Fasten your seat belts brothers and sisters...

There is so much to be burned out of us, but I thought it would be fun to share what scriptures have so far helped to burn out old doctrines and beliefs in your life...

Here's my list thus far:

God's Word says:
Romans 6:23 NIV
23  For the wages of sin is death

The Churches tell us:
The wages of sin is burning in hell fire for eternity.
 
God's Word says:
1 Timothy 2:3-4 MKJV 
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who WILL have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The Churches tell us:
God only desires, wishes and hopes that ALL men will be saved.
 
God's Word says:
1 Timothy 4:10 ESV 
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, ESPECIALLY of those who believe.

The Churches tell us:
God is the Savior of believers ONLY.
 
God's Word says:
Romans 8:37-39 ESV
37   in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38  For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
39  nor height nor depth,NOR ANYTHING ELSE in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The Churches tell us:
Man's all powerful free will can separate you from the love of God for the rest of eternity.
 
God's Word says:
Ephesians 1:11 nrs
11  In Christ we have also obtained an inheritance, having been destined according to the PURPOSE OF HIM who accomplishes ALL things according to HIS COUNSEL AND WILL

The Churches tell us:
God accomplishes all things according to his counsel and will EXCEPT when it interferes with MAN'S free will
 
God's Word says:
Proverbs 22:6 MKJV 
Train up a child in the way he should go; and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

The Churches tell us:
Most of God's children will depart from His ways, never to return.
 
God's Word says:
Matthew 5:44 MKJV 
But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you

The Churches tell us:
God sets an example for us on how we are to love our enemies:  torture them endlessly in fire with no hope of escape or some tell us He will just kill them off.
 
God's Word says:
Job 42:2 NASB
I know that You can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted

The Churches tell us:
Man's all-powerful free will can thwart God's purpose.
 
God's Word says:
John 15:16 NIV
16   You did not choose me, but I CHOSE YOU

The Churches tell us:
You must choose Christ.
 
God's Word says:
Philippians 2:13 MKJV
13  For it is GOD who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

The Churches tell us:
It is NOTHING that works in you both to will and to do because you have a free will that is not caused by anything, including God.
 
God's Word says:
Jeremiah 32:27 NIV
27   "I am the LORD, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?

The Churches tell us:
There is one thing that is too hard for God:  the salvation of ALL mankind.
 
God's Word says:
Isaiah 45:7 KJV
7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The Churches tell us:
God is NOT the creator of evil.
 


And the list goes on...

Peace and Grace to you,

Diana
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Brett

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2007, 01:12:34 AM »

Very good, Diana :D! Again, very good!

Thanks for sharing us.

Brett

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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2007, 01:25:33 AM »

Hi Diana,

God's Word says:
1Co 8:6  yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

The church tells us:
God is a Trinity; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
_____________________________________________________________________________

God's Word says:
Ecc 3:20  All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.
 
The church tells us:
When you die if you have confessed to believe in the Lord, then you go to be with the Lord for ever and ever.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 01:27:55 AM by Kat »
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snorky

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2007, 01:26:02 AM »

Great list, Diana!

Let me add one more, one of my favorites:

God's Word says:
John 17:15 (and 20)--"I pray not that thou shouldest take them (referring ot the disciples) out of the world, but that thou (father God) shouldest keep them from the evil one" and "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word (referring to all future believers)."

The Church says:

All believers will be "raptured" before the "great seven-year tribulation" or "after it" (it is amazing that the Church can teach the rapture when it is so clear it isn't going to happen because Christ said it wouldn't!)

And another one:

God's Word says:

Matthew 4:4--"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

The Church says:

Obey church elders, pastors, and leaders...and not just the word of God  (Hagee, for one, has said this, but I am sure most churches follow this rule...I know church board's do by personal experience!)

Deb aka snorky
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YellowStone

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Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2007, 01:26:27 PM »

Hi Dianna,

I have nothing to add to your wonderful list; however, I thank you so much for taking the time to put this together and post it in such a meaningful manner.

Thanks to everyone else for adding to it.

The contradictions are frightening, but the truth is comforting and healing.

May God grant you all a wonderful day!

Love,
Darren
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Patrick

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  • Posts: 672
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2007, 01:50:52 PM »

How hard is getting saved?

God's Word tells us what it takes.

Church informs us it can be done in a matter of seconds if we say the "sinners prayer"

Thanks, Diana.
If I missed that somewhere already posted, please forgive me.
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gmik

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Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2007, 02:05:09 PM »

What a beautiful thread.  Copying it and sending it to some folks!!!  Thanks!

Diana, the last 2 avatars have been so cute!!
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 02:06:49 PM by gmik »
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iris

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2007, 04:03:37 PM »

Diana,

This is a great list! 

Thank you for sharing.  :)


Iris
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2007, 05:20:29 PM »

Hello Skydreamers

Here is an excerpt from LOF part 2

THEY SPEAK WITH FORKED - ED TONGUE

Most all Christian theologians would claim to believe the first statement of Scriptural Truth that I present below, especially when I cite a Scripture verse with it, but they will then contradict and refuse to teach the second statement of Truth. Here are a few examples:

Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mans’ works, but not the man himself? Yes.

But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.

Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.

But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.

Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.

But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over man’s supposed "free" will? No.

Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.

Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.

But do they teach the truth therefore that men’s souls are moral and not immortal? No.

Do they believe that the original manuscripts of God’s Word were inerrant? Yes.

But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.

Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.

But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.

Do they believe there are many cults today that need exposing? Yes.

But do they teach that Christendom, by its OWN definitions, is also a cult? No.

Do they believe that Sodom is "suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.

But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.

Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.

But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.

Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that "For as in Adam ALL die?" Yes.

But do they teach the last half, "even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?" No.

Do they believe that "...the end of the world [Gk: ion -- age]" ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.

But do they teach that this same "ion -- age" in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.

Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.

But do they teach this truth that "NO man," including David, has gone to heaven? No.

Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.

But do they teach that God’s "will" to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.

Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die?" Yes.

But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.

Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.

But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called "inerrant" King James Bible contained four-teen such books, including "Tobit," "Judith," "The idole Bel and the Dragon"? No.

Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.

But do they teach that "no man can" come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.

Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.

But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan "sinned from the beginning?" No.

Do they believe Christ really died for the sins of the world? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ was dead when they placed Him in the tomb? No.

Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to "sleep?" Yes.

But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, "sleeping" till resurrection? No.

Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.

But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.

Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.

But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.

Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.

But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.

Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes

But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.

Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.

But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.

Do they believe that God’s love will never fail (I Cor. 13:8)? Yes.

But do they teach that God’s love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.

Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.

But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.

Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christ’s parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.

But do they teach that Christ purposely didn’t want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.

Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.

But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.

Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.

But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.

Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.

But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.

There seems to be no end to the Scriptural contradictions of Christian beliefs. But we can learn from their mistakes. It is good for us that God makes us dig deep for the precious gems of His word. It really is like searching for hidden treasure. And I have never found a hidden treasure in God’s Word that has disappointed me. Each new discovery brings more appreciation for God and His plan of salvation for all.



Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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DWIGHT

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2007, 07:47:50 PM »

Diana,

You know that when I first started to read the Lake of Fire series, I thought that it would just be about the end times.  But after reading and re-reading, it's really about the whole scriptures.  He brings the whole bible together in the most simple of terms.  "The sum of thy word is truth."  It's so simple when you realize the scriptures are all one.  These comparisons' really expose the strong delusion that Christianity is under.  I'm just praying that God will call all His people out of her soon.   Thanks so much for sharing this with all of us.

Your brother,

Dwight 
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2007, 07:59:33 PM »

Hello Dwight

You commented :These comparisons' really expose the strong delusion......

I believe this is very important! The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is of the same root and its fruit is comparisons that we have to come away from, overcome....We overcome once we see the ONE tree of life, Lamb of God....

Just a thought...

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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DWIGHT

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2007, 08:32:52 PM »

Hi Arcturus,

Yes, it's so true, from the very beginning in the Garden of Eden all the way to the end in Revelation, He is the ONE tree of life.  This is the tree that we should be feeding on.  Also, in the beginning there was a river in the midst of the garden and in the end there is a river that flows from the throne of God.  We could go on and on, but all is Christ and Christ is ONE.  God is making us that tree and that river because we are in Him...all these wonderful types of Christ in the scriptures are also types of us, His elect, whom He is making in His image. Christ is the image of God the Father, and we are the image of Christ, but it's all ONE.  As He is, so are we.  Praise God!

Your brother,

Dwight
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2007, 02:29:26 AM »

Yes Dwight

EXACTLY! You articulated that extremely well. Thank you!

Peace to you son of God!

Arcturus :)
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2007, 11:40:21 AM »


Hi Dwight,

Quote
But after reading and re-reading, it's really about the whole scriptures.  He brings the whole bible together in the most simple of terms.  "The sum of thy word is truth."  It's so simple when you realize the scriptures are all one.

I have heard Ray say, that in order to understand anything in the Bible, you have to know the whole Bible, or something like that.  What I think that means is as you say the scriptures are all one.  If you take any part of it, there is truth in it, but to understand one part of it you have to also have a knowledge of the rest of it. 
Before BT when a read the Bible I just read the words, and I knew what it said.  Now when I read, the words have life and meaning, it is so different.  It's seems everytime I read in it God shows me something profound, I am not just reading the words anymore, I am seeing Christ in them  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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dogcombat

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2007, 12:03:19 PM »

Kat,

Your post summed up what Paul said about having to feed with the Milk of the word rather than the Meat of it.  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.   (1 Corinthians 3:2) 

Now the Spirit REVEALS the truths of God, as we read the scriptures.  Thus we now can digest the Meat of it.  Milk represents knowledge and Meat represents understanding..  Thus we begin to see the Meat to eat that Christ spoke of.  Oh by the Grace of God, we thank him for the blessing of Understanding His truths.

Ches.
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DWIGHT

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2007, 04:35:46 PM »

Hi Ches,

Your are so right about knowledge and understanding.  One is to know and the other is to see.  One is for the carnal mind and the other is for the spiritual heart.  There should be a real progression in our walk with the Lord, the scriptures even give a type from the very beginning.  In Genesis chapter one, God seperated the light from the darkness (a type of the begining of our salvation), then He made two lights...the one, a lesser light, and the other one, a greater light.  We started out in Christ with a little light, but we should be growing in Him in the greater light.  Like Kat said, they used to be just words, but now the words have life and meaning. 

You know, it's just like food, you can look at the food on your plate all day long; even analyze it, smell it, talk about it, think about it, but until you eat it, you will never get the reality of it. It will never benefit you until you get it into your stomach.  Then it will become life to you.  People have been eating off of the wrong tree since the creation, although, this was God's intention.  But now, for us to grow spiritually, we must eat of the the tree of life.  Like the writer of Hebrews says,

"For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." Heb. 5:12. 

And then again in verses 13 and 14, "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."  Discernment is nothing else but knowing Christ, because Christ is life.  "In him was life; and the life was the light of men." Jn. 1:4

Milk is good, and we should recognize when a brother or sister can only drink milk and not be critical, because we were all in the same boat.  Even in Genesis, they never ate meat until after the flood.  Sometimes, it takes a great catastrophy in our life and a lot of death in us before we are able to eat meat.  But once we get to the point of eating the meat of the word, we will never be satisfied for anything else.

You know what Ches, its taken me almost fifty years to eat meat.  I'm like Kat, these were all words and stories that I just read but I never ate them until now.  Praise the Lord!

In Him,

Dwight
 


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dogcombat

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2007, 04:52:03 PM »

Amen Dwight,

The bible now goes from being our LEARNING of God's word, to LIVING in God's reality.  The 23rd Psalm comes to mind.  From words you recite about Him, to a reality you live in Him.  It isn't pretty, it can get lonely, but it is NECESSARY, for those of us who walk in His marvelous light. 

Ches
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2007, 05:09:46 PM »

Hello brethren

To add in witness to what you are saying and sharing so beautifully:

1 Cor 13 : ….whether there be knowledge, it shall VANISH AWAY.

Paul writes the desire of his heart for us here…he writes…may you Eph 3 : 19 …really come to know practically, through EXPERIENCE FOR YOURSELVES the love of Christ , which FAR SURPASSES mere knowledge…

I enjoyed how you see this Ches : Milk represents knowledge and Meat represents understanding..   8)

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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DWIGHT

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2007, 06:25:17 PM »

Arcturus, my dear sister,

"Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ," Phil. 3:8

"In whom (Christ) are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."Col. 2:3

"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Tim. 3:7

"For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Pet. 1:8

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" Rom. 11:33

"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." 2 Cor. 4:6

"And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God." Eph. 3:19

"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,  I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." Phil. 3:10-14

Your brother,

Dwight




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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Word of God burning old doctrines...
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2007, 06:37:30 PM »

I can hear music…Lets dance!

1Cor 2 : 2 For I resolved to know nothing, to be acquainted with nothing, to make a display of the knowledge of nothing, and to be conscious of nothing among you except Jesus Christ the Messiah and Him crucified.

2 Cor 5 : 16 Consequently, from now on we estimate and regard no one from a purely human point of view, in terms of natural standards of value. No, even though we once did estimate Christ from a human viewpoint and as a man, yet now we have such knowledge of Him that we know Him no longer in terms of the flesh.

2 Cor 6 : 2 For He says, In the time of favour of an assured welcome, I have listened to and heeded your call, and I have helped you on the day of deliverance, the day of salvation. Behold, NOW is truly the time for a gracious welcome and acceptance of you from God; behold, now is the day of salvation

1 cor 8 : 7 Neverthless, not all believers possess this knowledge. :)

Peace in fellowship my brother Dwight!

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 06:41:16 PM by Arcturus »
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