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Abraham's Sacrifice of Issac - Why?
Kat:
For some it seems that to die to this life is a troubling thing. I too do not like the thought of death or anyone I love to leave in death. But this life is to have an experience of good and evil and then to die. We all will die.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment,
God is sovereign and He controls the way all will die, so if in the OT He told the Israelite to "thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:" Ok that's the way they were to die.
But Israel was used as a very important type of the 'Israel of God' to come, they were the physical shadow of the spiritual Israel. There is obviously a very important analogy used here to show how God will work in Spiritual Israel. So the way God caused them to die was to teach the elect.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
That God told Israel to put all to death, so in that case you know it makes God responsible. Is God any less responsible for the death of every person that dies in every war that has ever happened, or for that matter every person that dies that ever lived. He is sovereign and He alone decides when someone shall die.
Ecc 3:1 "To every thing there is a season, and a time for every purpose under the heavens: v. 2 a time to be born, and a time to die;"
I do not think you will call God a murderer to His face, when you stand before Him to give account.
This life that we cling to, is only a shadow of real life, the sooner it is over the better, we just can't except that.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Sorin:
Well then, how can it [now] be wrong to kill anybody from a biblical point of view? I mean sure it's illegal, and you will most likely not escape man's justice, but I don't understand how Christians can be against abortion when they used to rip babies out of their mother's wombs in the OT. They can't even use their religion to say that abortion is wrong, since clearly, it isn't in the bible.
Rape isn't wrong, cutting off people's hands and feet and hanging them over the pool is not wrong [David] , neighter is killing a man so you can sleep with his wife. And David was a man after God's own heart. Yeah, an evil God. I still don't understand why Kain was punished for killing Abel, didn't he just do what God later commanded the Zionists to do?
So would I call God a murderer to his face? Seeing that he creates life, and he takes life.... I don't know, but how about, evil?
Also, the Ten Commandments thou shalt not kill was written in vain, or perhaps, it meant thou shalt not kill.... another Jew only, but who cares about the filthy Gentiles...
And you wonder why people don't like the Jews, or their God. Mel Gibson isn't such a bad guy... really, he isn't...............
Also shall mortal men be more just than God? In this case, I would have to say yes. I would never do any of those vile things.
Robin:
I've learned to recognize in my life that every attack from the evil one is an attack on the character of God for the purpose of destroying my faith.
Who are we to question God's character? Would it not be just if he wiped us all off the face of the earth. We are all guilty of sin and all have sinned. The wages of sin is death and we've all earned the death penalty. Who can stand before God and question his character?
He spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all.
What great mercy he has shown to all of us.
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Sorin on March 24, 2007, 04:13:31 PM ---Well then, how can it [now] be wrong to kill anybody from a biblical point of view?
Pro 26:16 The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason.
Pro 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
I mean sure it's illegal, and you will most likely not escape man's justice, but I don't understand how Christians can be against abortion when they used to rip babies out of their mother's wombs in the OT. They can't even use their religion to say that abortion is wrong, since clearly, it isn't in the bible.
Pro 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
Ecc 10:12 The words of a wise man's mouth are gracious; but the lips of a fool will swallow up himself.
Rape isn't wrong, cutting off people's hands and feet and hanging them over the pool is not wrong [David] , neighter is killing a man so you can sleep with his wife. And David was a man after God's own heart. Yeah, an evil God. I still don't understand why Kain was punished for killing Abel, didn't he just do what God later commanded the Zionists to do?
Psa 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psa 94:11 The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.
Ecc 5:2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.
So would I call God a murderer to his face? Seeing that he creates life, and he takes life.... I don't know, but how about, evil?
Psa 41:5 Mine enemies speak evil of me, When shall he die, and his name perish?
Also, the Ten Commandments thou shalt not kill was written in vain, or perhaps, it meant thou shalt not kill.... another Jew only, but who cares about the filthy Gentiles...
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
And you wonder why people don't like the Jews, or their God. Mel Gibson isn't such a bad guy... really, he isn't...............
Jud 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Jud 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodlylusts.
Jud 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Also shall mortal men be more just than God? In this case, I would have to say yes. I would never do any of those vile things.
Deu 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Job 33:12 Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.
Job 33:13 Why dost thou strive against him? for he giveth not account of any of his matters.
Job 33:14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.
--- End quote ---
TimothyVI:
--- Quote from: Kat on March 24, 2007, 12:29:46 PM ---
For some it seems that to die to this life is a troubling thing. I too do not like the thought of death or anyone I love to leave in death. But this life is to have an experience of good and evil and then to die. We all will die.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment,
God is sovereign and He controls the way all will die, so if in the OT He told the Israelite to "thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:" Ok that's the way they were to die.
But Israel was used as a very important type of the 'Israel of God' to come, they were the physical shadow of the spiritual Israel. There is obviously a very important analogy used here to show how God will work in Spiritual Israel. So the way God caused them to die was to teach the elect.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
That God told Israel to put all to death, so in that case you know it makes God responsible. Is God any less responsible for the death of every person that dies in every war that has ever happened, or for that matter every person that dies that ever lived. He is sovereign and He alone decides when someone shall die.
Ecc 3:1 "To every thing there is a season, and a time for every purpose under the heavens: v. 2 a time to be born, and a time to die;"
I do not think you will call God a murderer to His face, when you stand before Him to give account.
This life that we cling to, is only a shadow of real life, the sooner it is over the better, we just can't except that.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Hi Kat,
Thank you for that thoughtful reply. You have the right attitude concerning things to which we have no answers.
The things that God commanded His people to do in the old testament were immoral by my standards.
Genocide is immoral by any rational person's standards. I could not
justify doing anything like that even if I thought that God ordered it. Because I could not be certain that He did.
My biggest problem is that I do not like thinking that my God could be like that. That is why I keep looking
for a better understanding of the torah.
I have reconciled within myself, that in the eyes of God, what he commanded was not a bad thing because He alone knew
that all of these people being killed were merely moving from one life to another. A better life in fact.
But you have to admit, it had to create a lot of confusion with the Hebrews, for God to command his people, "thou shall not kill"
or murder, and then tell them to kill every man, woman and child.
It has also created a lot of confusion ever since. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people have been killed
since the time of Christ, supposedly in His name, because they believe that God has shown that He approves of killing
in His name. Mostly because of what happened in the bible. The bible that is supposed to teach morals.
I wish that I had your unconditional acceptance of God's methods Kat.
I pray that God has mercy on me that I don't.
Blessings on you,
Tim
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