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The Deaths of the Apostles

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Deborah-Leigh:
Hello MOlivier

As far as I know there is no one who is Elect while still alive. The Elect are those found faithful unto death. so this would fit with the fact that non are born again in this life and non are saved either until Christ returns and then only the Elect will be saved and the others will be corrected through the LOF until all are saved finally because God does not WILL that any should perish but His plan is some will perish and He will restore and save them.

The thought came to me that we are in the last hour and not in the heat of the day as are some of God's servants in the vineyard were when He first called them in the earlier part of the day. This is symbolic of our times. We are getting far easier access to the Kingdom than Paul who was sorely punished and persecuted in his day! What excuse will we have?....

Bless you for your thoughts and humble regard for our Almighty and Sovereign God that comes through your post.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

Kat:

Hi M Oliver,

I see your point, but I agree with Arcturus, we are in a different time of this age.  Things at the time of the apostles were so different than now.  The apostles knew Christ personally and was taught by Him and I believe this gave them the strength and courage to endure what they did.  At this time we are at a different phase of the age, and so were the elect down through the generations. 
We are blessed to not have to face what the apostles did, and I am thankful for that.

Pax, I see what you are saying;


--- Quote ---The Book of Revelation bears no resemblance to the Fourth Gospel or the Epistles of John. The grammar is different, word usage and other comparisons of literary criticism makes the likelihood of shared authorship mighty slim.
--- End quote ---

But there are somethings that I would consider. The different situations of the writings of the 2 books. John may have used an amanuensis (secretary) to edit his gospel book, but would not have had one for the writing of Revelation, while on Patmos. This could have been the reason for the difference writing styles.


--- Quote ---So, in short, we have the Fourth Gospel which does not claim to be written by a person named John, is called The Gospel of John while the Book of Revelation does claim to be written by someone named John. Biblical irony
--- End quote ---

The fact that the Revelation was to be distributed to the seven churches, now wouldn't all the churches have to know this 'John' and to regard him with great respect to take this letter with any weight. Obviously the early churches all thought that John the apostle was the author.
And another thing John was Jesus' beloved friend and perhaps the disciple most intimate with Him.
Also Jesus said to John, "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom (Matt. 16:28)." The awesome thing about this scripture is that John did see the coming of Christ, while in vision(Rev 9:17) and writing the book of Revelation.
I think all the other apostles were already martyred by 96 AD, so I think Jesus would have revealed this to one of the twelve, therefore John's life was preserved for this purpose perhaps.

It is not an issue for me either Arcturus  :)
But just thought I would comment.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Deborah-Leigh:
Thank you Kat

I really enjoy and value this Scripture from Col 3 : 15 And let the peace, soul harmony which comes from Christ rule, act as umpire continually in your hearts, deciding and settling with finality all questions that arise in your minds, in that peaceful state to which as members of Christs's one body you were also called to live. And be thankful, appreciative, giving praise to God always. 16 Let the word spoken by Christ the Messiah have its home in your hearts and minds and dwell in you in all its richness as you teach and admonish and train one another in all  insight and intelligence and wisdom in spiritual things..........

to add to what you brought forward : Also Jesus said to John, "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom (Matt. 16:28)."

May be this would fit as a second witness where Jesus said to Peter in John  ;D 21 : 22 Jesus said to him (Peter) If I want him to stay, survive, live until I come, what is that to you? What concern is it of yours? YOU follow ME!

Peace to you Sister

Arcturus :)

rjsurfs:
Sometimes we don't want to be involved with "issues" but we also shouldn't pitter-patter around the truth... this is Bible-Truths after all... correct?  Are we not here to help us in our knowledge of the truth? 

It is best to "nip it in the bud" as I have seen on Craig's signature... if not, the next thing you know you have a grassy knoll... or subtle half-truths that creep in and cause us to stray.  A further thought may be to question the authorship of all the books of the Bible... or wonder if they were inspired after all...  I think not.

In addition to what Kat mentioned there were many, many writers that lived in the same century as John the apostle and referred to him directly as the author of the Apocalypse.  The style itself in the writing is not so different from the gospel book... as is the subject matter, the method it was delivered, etc... full of visions, types, and symbolisms...

There is of course the obvious that John mentions Patmos... why would we theorize there being another such respected "John" on Patmos?

With a little study you find this many, many year old debate is not based on historical facts at all... this has it roots with Martin Luther and doctrinal disagreements in the church.

I would hope that guests visiting our forum don't click away thinking we are now disputing that John the Apostle authored Revelation.

Falconn003:
scooby-doo could have written the translated book of Revelation for all i care.

Although whom God choosed to inspire to write Revelation in Hebrew and Greek, has indeed served it's purpose, according to God's plan.

The PURPOSE of REVELATION to REVEAL Jesus the Christ, too the reader, is the focal point of book. Has had a great succes in revealing Jesus too like minded individuals.

God bless
Rodger

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