> General Discussions
The Deaths of the Apostles
Deborah-Leigh:
"As the first century AD drew to a close, the churches of Asia Minor were endangered by two foes, persecution and heresy, with heresy being by far the greater danger. The ascended Christ directed John, the aging apostle, to address this urgent situation Rev 1 : 17-19). these churches needed a renewed vision of God and a revelation of His glorious plans for their future.
It is fitting that Revelation comes last in the biblical canon, for it is the climax of all that has gone before as it foretells the ultimate fulfillment of God's efforts to redeem lost humanity.
John, beloved disciple, apostle, and elder ( Rev 1: 1,4,9: 22:8). The reign of church fathers ALL CONFIRM John's authorship. The similarities of vocabulary and literary style with John's other writings confirm it as well." Ref : Wilmington's Bible Handbook
" Revelation is the only bock of prophecy in the New Testament. It is the only book in the divine library that especially promises a blessing to those who read and hear. "Blessed" is a strong word. "Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy" is what the book of Revelation says of itself (Rev 1 : 3) but after reading the first chapters about the churches, and the last chapters describing heaven, not many of us read much in this book.
REVELATION PRESENTS A GLORIOUS, REIGNING CHRIST. The Gospels present Him as a Saviour, One who came to take the curse of sin, but in this last book we see no humiliation. In one way Revelation is the most remarkable book in the whole sacred canon. Revelation tells us about the reign of Christ on this earth that Satan wants to control. It tells of Christ's complete and eternal victory over Satan. It describes Satan's defeat and punishment, first for a thousand years, then eternally. It tells more about Satan's final doom than any other book. No wonder Satan doesn't want people to read it!....
Few people who have any imagination have not sat down and thought, I wonder how it would feel to be a king. But Christ says when He comes He will make us reign as kings Rev 1 : 6 )
Them "those who pierced Him" shall see Him Rev 1 : 7. Although that refers especially to the Jewish people, who at Christ's coming will turn to Him as a united people and be saved (Romans 11: 25-26), at the same time it means many others who have pierced Christ will see Him. Have YOU pierced Him?"
Ref : What the Bible is all about by Dr. Henrietta C. Mears
DWIGHT:
I must agree with you that believe the Apostle John wrote both books. But like Arcturus said, these things can lead to vain babbling and endless genealogies which benefit no one. All scripture is God breathed, so regardless of who He breathed it through, it is still inspired by God.
With regard to the four beasts, and four and twenty elders being the twelve apostles and the twelve patriarchs, I don't think is a good argument that John was just observing and therefore was not the Apostle himself. Remember that this is a book of symbols and as a result we need to look at it with spiritual eyes rather than just a physical story. Listen to what the scriptures actually say about these four beasts and four and twenty elders....
"8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." Rev. 5:8-10.
All the Apostles and the patriarchs were Jews, but this clearly shows that these four beasts and four and twenty elders were redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. These are the very elect of Christ not just four physical beasts or four and twenty physical people. Only the elect are kings and priests, and only the elect will reign on earth.
M_Oliver, you're right, everyone suffers in this life, and all are not God's elect. But I don't think anyone here is claiming to be there as of yet. Kat's original post has nothing to do with claiming to be God's elect. She was merely giving us a little information on how the Apostles died. Is there something that I missed in your post that causes you to doubt where WE are? I'm only asking because you seem to be upset with us or some of us. If I'm wrong, I apologize and please forgive me.
Your brother in Christ,
Dwight
andrevan:
Thank you Kat for those facts about the apostle's deaths, and thank you Arcturus for your sobering comments. Endless nitpicking and loose speculation about the Word of God profits us nothing. God is able and has preserved His Scriptures for us, just as He wanted them to be, regardless of who wrote what book of His wonderful Word.
Peace of God to you all. May we all continue to grow in grace and knowledge.
Andrevan.
M_Oliver:
--- Quote from: Dwight on March 27, 2007, 03:02:32 PM ---M_Oliver, you're right, everyone suffers in this life, and all are not God's elect. But I don't think anyone here is claiming to be there as of yet. Kat's original post has nothing to do with claiming to be God's elect. She was merely giving us a little information on how the Apostles died. Is there something that I missed in your post that causes you to doubt where WE are? I'm only asking because you seem to be upset with us or some of us. If I'm wrong, I apologize and please forgive me.
Your brother in Christ,
Dwight
--- End quote ---
NO. Not upset with anyone. Another case of communicating via words instead of voice :). When I read Kats post it reminded me of something that I have thought over so many times before. That is that these true followers suffered SO MUCH for their faith that it makes our trials look like chump change. Why is that? I know I can't speak for everyone so I don't mean to question anyone's severity of trials but I have never seen any documentation of anyone since them {Kats post} that has had to suffer like that personally. Boiled in oil? BEATEN to death? Believe me, I am not asking for that to happen to any of us but why isn't there some kind of trail of this kind of treatment against those who God is forming into the elect through the generations since them?
I hope Arcturus was right {Matthew 20}.
Mark
Redbird:
Mark,
You asked "why isn't there some kind of trail of this kind of treatment?". You are talking about the physical abuse they endured. In this age, the offender would be put in jail. So, I think the enemy is much more sly now. ie.....more mental abuse. Or haven't you noticed just how many people are on some kind of Dr. prescribed medication for everything from depression to bi-polar, to name a few. Not to mention also, that medical records are highly confidential.
Peace to you, Lisa
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