> General Discussions
The Deaths of the Apostles
M_Oliver:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on March 26, 2007, 07:08:02 PM ---Hello MOliver
As far as I know there is no one who is Elect while still alive. The Elect are those found faithful unto death.
--- End quote ---
It sure seems that Paul refers to the colossians as though they already are...
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; (Colossians 3:12 KJVR)
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello MOliver
Yes it does seem that way! :D
If you look at Ephesians 1 : 3 May blessing be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ Who has blessed us in Christ with EVERY SPIRITUAL blessing in the heavenly realm 5, For He foreordained us to be adopted as His own ....7In Him we have redemption deliverance and salvation through His blood...11 In Him we also were made God's heritage and we obtained an inheritance...12...have been destined and APPOINTED to live for the praise of His glory....
It can also seem, or appear that the Ephesians were also elect :D But I do not think that while they lived that they were elect. Even Paul did not consider himself elect but he ran his race to achieve and acquire the reward of election.
When Paul wrote to the Ephesians and Colosians he encouraged them and I think Paul saw their end as God also sees our end from the beginning. Our end too will be that we are perfected in Christ and will bear His image. In the end God will be all in All. That end had not yet come when Paul was writing about it in his letters and not until Christ returns and the resurrection begins will election begin. Then the elect will be raised elect and the lost will be raised to the White Throne Judgement to be purified, corrected and reestablished in reconciliation to God.
As for now, and then in the past and during the times behind us, non have been resurrected yet! As I understand it Christ has not yet begun His Glorious Reign on earth. Therefore non are born again, non are yet saved and non are yet elect. Many are called but few will be chosen. Some, not all are stamped with the seal of the Holy Spirit.
Eph 1 : 14 That Spirit is the guarantee of our inheritance, the first fruits, the pledge and foretaste, the down payment on our heritage in ANTICIPATION of it s full redemption and our acquiring COMPLETE POSSESSION OF IT - to the praise of His glory.
Our election is future when Christ returns. The future elect are in judgement now and are living the life of Christ as His testimony to the world. It is all about Him not us.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Redbird:
It also seems to me that Jesus does indeed reign on the earth also;
Mathew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Eph 1 20-21 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Col 1 16-19 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisiable, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist: And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Revelation 1 5-6 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithfull witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth, unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood;
He is in my eyes, THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS
Peace and Mercy, Lisa
M_Oliver:
Thanks Arcturus, I understand what you mean. I also want to thank you for leading me to Matthew 20 regarding my earlier posts on why we are not facing trials as physically severe as the Apostles. That "workers in the vineyard" parable explains so much. I found another neat little treasure later in the chapter that I never caught before. Praise God for the Rotherham translation and e-sword. Verse 28:
Just as, the Son of Man, came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom instead of many. (Matthew 20:28 Rotherham)
Most translations render this "for" many. Reading it as "instead" of many makes complete sense. By saying "instead" of many it leaves open that a few would also have to lay down their lives for Him. To me it is a spiritual match with the parable...especially verse 28...
These last, one hour, wrought, and thou hast made them, equal unto us, who have borne the burden of the day, and the scorching heat. (Matthew 20:12 Rotherham)
Mark
hillsbororiver:
This has been a very interesting and edifying thread, I just want to add another thought here. Even though we all hope to be one body and one spiritual nation in our Lord He does deal with each and every one of us on a One on one basis. It is all His call, like Jesus said to Peter in regard to the apostle John I believe it is not for us to compare trials and tribulations with each other or to put the apostles on a pedestal because of how the Lord used them. I do not recall anything written on how any of them were brought kicking and screaming to their deaths, they had been spiritually strengthened and prepared for the day of their deaths and all appeared to see it as an honor and not a burden.
John 21
18Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
19This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
20Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
24This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
25And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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