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How do we handle the hard truths?
hillsbororiver:
I actually bowed out of that thread as there did not seem to be a humble search for truth on Sorin's part, just one blasphemous accusation after another, this is not the first time we have patiently attempted to provide council to our Brother Sorin.
2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Pro 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Perhaps I missed something but I did not see a reasonable approach (by Sorin) in the manner he presented his questions, or any attempt at understanding the answers that were given to him.
Does God need to prove Himself to us or do we need to pray for the understanding of His Wisdom and ways, which are above our wisdom and ways (methods)?
We are compared to clay or pottery subject to the authority of the Master Potter.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Isa 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Jer 18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
God created us and owns us part and parcel He can do with us as He pleases and in faith we not only accept this but praise Him for His plan of redemption and for the example of His Son our Lord.
In an earlier version of this topic I asked if it could be considered theft or vandalism if I went to a friend’s house and took a sledgehammer to his oil burning, unreliable 1973 Chevy Vega and had it towed away. After the mess was cleaned up (also by me) I had a brand new vehicle delivered to him that I paid for entirely, would that be an evil thing?
If God destroys this temporal corruptible flesh and replaces it with an incorruptible immortal spiritual body is that something we should despise? Only if we love and worship the beast within more than we love Him.
Let's also not forget that the OT is not just a history of Israel but a prophecy of the spiritual Kingdom, the utter destruction described in many parts of the OT are prophecies of the eventual and total death of all carnal action and thought in all creation.
Any questions asked in a humble manner where truth is being sought should be treated with patience and longsuffering, I saw none of this (humble spirit) in that thread's premise.
Pro 26:21 As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife.
1Co 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.
I am not sure that this was an actual sincere quest for understanding, it seems apparent to me that this was a deliberate attempt to cause strife and division, should we give this type of action a podium here? Should it be tolerated limitlessly?
There have been more than a few that have done this in the past and there will be more in the future, we moderators purposely err on the side of caution but there is no godly purpose in continually giving heed to insincere questions and blasphemous statements in the name of tolerance.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
CEO:
Joe
You made the right call. I have been offline for one week and see numerous new contributors , they nor we need to be thrown into a contentious group. If we have a hard question we need to listen hard to our fellow members, not create strife.
Askseeknock
Charlie o
iris:
I don't usually get into threads like this one(and the other one) because I don't feel I have anything worthwhile to add to the discussions, so I just stay on the sidelines and lurk.
While I was reading these threads a scripture came to mind so I thought I would throw it out there.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I the Lord do all these things.
Jehovah God is a perfect God, and everything he does is perfect. We may not be able, right now, to see this. But as the light gets brighter and our eyes are opened wider, one day we will be able to understand.
As Joe said God created us and owns us part and parcel He can do with us as he pleases and in faith we not only accept this but praise Him for His plan of redemption and for the example of His Son our Lord.
Iris
Kat:
Hi Tim,
--- Quote ---If I am unable to supply the answer, then I failed what Peter required of us.
1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
--- End quote ---
I agree that we should give an answer, if we have the understanding.
Minsters in the church are ready to give answers all the time, but it's the wrong answer.
There is more to this "be ready always to give an answer," ready also means prepared. We want to be sure our answer is scriptural. With eSword at my fingertips, it's easier to answer here.
But I think wrong answers are worse than no answer.
2Tim 2:14 Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.
v. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
v. 16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,
So we have to "rightly handle the Word of Truth."
We do not want to cause someone to be more confused.
But it we are blessed with understanding, then we have a joy in sharing it.
Psa 119:130 The unfolding of your words gives light; it imparts understanding to the simple.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
To add to what has already been truthfully, Scripturally and beautifully shared.
2 Cor3 : 13 - 17 Nor do WE act like Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze upon the finish of the vanishing splendor which had been upon it. 14. In fact, their minds were grown hard and calloused, they had become dull and had lost the power of understanding: for until THIS PRESENT DAY, when the Old Testament, the old covenant is being read, that same veil still lies on their hearts, not being lifted to reveal that IN CHRIST IT IS MADE VOID AND DONE AWAY. 15 Yes, down to THIS VERY DAY whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their minds and hearts 16. But whenever a person turns in repentance to the Lord, the veil is striped off and taken away.
Tim I too have extended my fellowship to Sorin. I did not recieve any response but saddly saw that he went from bad to worse regarding his grieviences with our Father God and His Son. For whoesoever loves the Son loves also the Father. The Son is the God of the OT which Sorin was pointing fingers at by the way.
I believe that our time here in Forums is precious to us all. Each word we have for one another and our sharing of our like mindedness is for the purpose of building faith, edification and encouragement. When our faith is ignored or slighted or our God is defamed we should not be lukewarm!
If you notice, it is not so much about what questions are asked it is more about HOW they are asked and HOW the answers are received. Not knowing everything and not understanding everything is okay. Rebellion, rejection, arrogance and offence and abuse of our opportunity to love one another here, is quite a different story. To discern we can ask is this going...my way, your way or God's way?
To witness to the first Scripture on this post here's another :
1 cor 5 :7 Purge, clean out the old leaven that you may be fresh new dough, still uncontaminated as you are, for Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed.
2 cor 5 : 17 Therefore if any person is in-grafted in Christ, he is a new creation, a new creature altogether; the old previous moral and spiritual condition HAS PASSED AWAY. Behold, the fresh and new has come!
Eh 4 : 22 Strip yourselves of your former nature, put off AND DISCARD your old inerrant self, which characterized your previous manner of life and becomes corrupt through lusts and desires that spring from delusion;
This last Scripture makes me think of the OT being the former nature, the old leaven because Christ has come, died, risen and is coming again.
Here is the encouragement that unites with all who love God that we are Heb 12 : 2 Looking away from all that will distract, to Jesus, Who is the Leader and the Source of our faith....3 JUST THINK OF HIM who endured from sinners such grievous opposition and bitter hostility......
If our conversation is giving glory to my way or your way, then we can be sure it is not God's way and it will not be to HIS Glory. It is a mercy that the Mods are here and that ignorance is nipped in the bud!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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