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[fe32k]

Many people speak of trials and tribulation. The Bible mentions trials and tribulations for true believers, of this I have no doubt. I do, however, doubt that the many that mention of their daily trials and tribulations speak of the same thing that the scriptures mention. The apostles faced persecution due to what they preached. They were joyful during (mostly after) these trials. They considered themselves privileged to face such trials for preaching Jesus.

Now when one has a bad day at work because they're manager would not get off their case, when you fall and break your leg, when you have a fight with your Wife/Husband, when you are having financial issues, etc. These are not trials and tribulations that are unique to believers! Absolutely everyone in the world has face this at one point of their lives.

I don't think that a believer should feel (though it does happen) that the world is on their shoulders. Lets remain faithful Brothers and Sisters for Christ has overcome the world.  We too shall overcome because He who started a work in us will complete it if Christ really abides in you. Let us speak confidently of what God has put into our hearts and when we get Persecution in return let us REJOICE for we are found worthy to suffer for the Lord's sake. This is what the scriptures speak of. Our daily trials are a process that ALL must go through according to God's will. Unique to us are those rejections and cursing of the synagogues of Satan who find this pill hard to swallow. We who do not, will feel the medicine curing us unto perfection. And that medicine is Jesus!

My prayer is that this capitalist mind set that has consumed this country does not entrap me as well and none of you. I get up every weekday and go to work and wish that maybe, just maybe the Lord's return will occur before I return to work. Besides I am just passing by. Let us leave these worries and stress behind. Otherwise we might get consumed by it. Let's share when we are persecuted for Christ's sake and let us comfort one another in truth and love. I read threads a lot and seldom add a thought, but I thought this was important. Let's hold on tight till the end. Us who overcome will receive a crown of life. Hallelujah!

Now to the merciful, the powerful and mighty, the loving and beautiful God be power and glory now, and for ever. Amen.

God be with you all,
Roy

[Redbird]

Dear Roy,

Amen to that.  I believe that is what the Spirit is trying to tell us.  To endure and to overcome.  Count it as joy, as we look to our saviour, Jesus Christ and to the only true God.

Lisa

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Roy & Lisa,

There certainly is much truth in what you posted; we can get caught up in the self pity spiral because of a tyrannical boss, rude and insensitive people, money (lack of) issues, mundane jobs, etc. Also our health and the physical condition of our family and friends can cause despair and real emotional pain. These are the trials and tribulations all humanity shares.

The trials and tribulations of those called to judgment now are a bit different;
 
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

This process of judgment is a real and gut wrenching experience at times, in my own case I have had old forgotten wrongs I have done in my past become painfully fresh, as if it happened yesterday. Things I had previously justified became glaringly wrong, sinful and evil in my eyes, the time to bitterly repent had/has arrived.

There are times when anger, rage, jealousy, envy, impatience, lust, and all the things I have begun to despise rear their ugly faces and once again I fall, fail and stumble over my flesh.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Also I have experienced temptations that I had thought were behind me become painfully alive causing stress and a recognition of just how carnal my flesh and natural spirit is and  without the grace of His Spirit I would be susceptible to many self destructive actions.

There is a certain duality of mind inherent in this;

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
 
Mar 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

This can be quite maddening, it is almost as if we become a dual personality once we are called by Him and He begins to purge us from our carnal nature. There was a time not very long ago where I could justify just about anything I did or thought of, the only regret would come if I got caught or had to face consequences for my actions. Now even thinking about selfish actions can and does twist my gut into a knot and I know the only hope is to pray for deliverance and spiritual strength to overcome these temptations.

Believe me it was not always so, this is (relatively) recent but an undeniably  powerful transformation process.

His Peace to you,

Joe
 

[Kat]

Hi Roy,

I understand what you are saying.  Most of us are not persecuted like the apostles were, because they were boldly proclaiming this new truth, to a world that was very hostile to it. Today there is a much lesser element that could be considered hostile to Christianity. They lived in a very different world of religion than we do today.
There are those that reject the truth we may share with them in a way that might be considered persecution.
But for the most part, in our lives we deal we the same thing that the rest of the world deals with, as you said;

Now when one has a bad day at work because they're manager would not get off their case, when you fall and break your leg, when you have a fight with your Wife/Husband, when you are having financial issues, etc. These are not trials and tribulations that are unique to believers! Absolutely everyone in the world has face this at one point of their lives.

But I tend to look at things now differently, as Joe said;

The trials and tribulations of those called to judgment now are a bit different;
 
1Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

We are going through much the same things as the rest of the world, but it is how we react to these things, that we are being judged by.  We are being help by a different standard than the rest of the world.  There is much we have to overcome in our lives, to be worthy of the kingdom.  Everyday that we are on this earth, is an opportunity to walk in this newness of life and to becoming closer to the image of Christ.

Col 3:5  Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
v. 6  Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience,
v. 7  in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
v. 8  But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth.
v. 9  Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,
v. 10  and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him,
v. 11  where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.
v. 12  Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;
v. 13  bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.
v. 14  But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.
v. 15  And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful.
v. 16  Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
v. 17  And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[YellowStone]

This is a wonderful thread and I thank you Roy for starting it and all who responded thus far for the wonderful instruction given

I believe that the trials and tribulations that we are faced with on a daily basis and held accountable as Kat stated can be used as a measuring stick by ourselves. Sometimes it can be quite frightening in what we find.

We should work always towards mastery of the truth.

1Cr 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible

There are two words in the above Scripture that really speak of what must become and be always.

Temperate
egkrates {eng-krat-ace'} [1468]

1) strong, robust
2) having power over, possessed of (a thing)
3) mastering, controlling, curbing, restraining
    a) controlling one's self, temperate, continent

Incorruptible
aphthartos {af'-thar-tos} [862]
1) uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable
    a) of things
2) immortal
    a) of the risen dead

Pretty simple just looking at it, but Satan is not a push over and will work harder, the closer we get. He will not concede one of us, because there is strength in numbers. Perhaps this is why brother Ray is being persecuted more than we; in the hope that he will fail and we will all stumble and fall too.

Remember always to:

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Your brother in Christ,
Darren

[Rene]

This process of judgment is a real and gut wrenching experience at times, in my own case I have had old forgotten wrongs I have done in my past become painfully fresh, as if it happened yesterday. Things I had previously justified became glaringly wrong, sinful and evil in my eyes, the time to bitterly repent had/has arrived.

There are times when anger, rage, jealousy, envy, impatience, lust, and all the things I have begun to despise rear their ugly faces and once again I fall, fail and stumble over my flesh.

 

Joe,

I understand and agree with your view on this topic.  There is much pain in seeing ourselves for who we truly are and what we have been.  To come to the point of true repentance is not a pleasant experience.  This flesh takes no pleasure in dying.  If our hearts and minds are being converted, we are feeling the pain of this experience.

Rene'

[Firefly]

Roy...thank you for starting this thread and for everyone that responded. Joe your words were especially encouraging as I have days where I literally hate the way I am. I keep thinking God how much longer am I going to to act like this. I used to think I could change and now I truly believe only God can change me. I get so depressed sometimes because it seems like it is taking so long. I hate the way I act many times (although then I will have a day or two where I think just maybe I am starting to conquer sin but it doesn't last) and just wonder why God takes so long to change us once we come to understand we are the beast, we need to change and only he can change us. Below I pasted a couple verses from Revelation. Does anyone know if this is talking about this such thing...when we cry out to God to please kill the beast and come take His rightful place on our throne? If it doesn't does anyone know what it is referring to. Thanks again for posting this...I know it doesn't shorten these days but it just helps knowing others understand and have been through the same things. Lori )

9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Rev 6:9-11

[YellowStone]

Lori, my dear sister I think you are being way to hard on yourself. (This is my understanding as given to me)

You said:

I have days where I literally hate the way I am. I keep thinking God how much longer am I going to to act like this. I used to think I could change and now I truly believe only God can change me. I get so depressed sometimes because it seems like it is taking so long. I hate the way I act many times (although then I will have a day or two where I think just maybe I am starting to conquer sin but it doesn't last) and just wonder why God takes so long to change us once we come to understand we are the beast, we need to change and only he can change us.

The way I see it, is that God brings us out of the darkness and into the light. Not for us to become perfect, but for us to see "us" for who we really are. God has opened our eyes to see some things we could never see before. Often, they are not pretty. However, first step in change something is the acknowledging the need for change.

God I believe has done his part. We know how Satan works, just as we know the carnal nature of our own hearts. This I believe has to be accepted, even Paul said: That what I do not want to do, I do! We are not going to conquer sin, to do so would be to achieve perfection and this is not yet for us. Knowing and accepting that we are going to sin, is not cause for concern; rather it is the first step in doing something about it.

God wants us to "see" sin, so that we can avoid its consequences. We will always have Satan urging us to take a bite of that apple, but we KNOW that God is with us, that his armor will protect us.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Lori, I really believe that God has equipped us to handle sin, to control our temper and curb our emotions. Sometimes with Gods help, we are almost invincible, while at other times we are almost strangers to ourselves. This is Satan working our canal soul; just because he leads us away, we need only ask God for help and know that it will come. With that knowledge, we can turn ourselves around; we can calm the anger; quell the loud mouth and find peace in chaos. We need never wait for God, for he is always waiting for us.

We are only the beast while ever we fight God; God created us in his image and he wants us to shed the beast and its ways. We will never completely lose the beast, but it need not be the one in control.

Life does not need to be a struggle, for God is with us always

Psa 23:1 The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want.

Psa 23:2  He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

Psa 23:3  He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Psa 23:4  Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Psa 23:5  Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

Psa 23:6  Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Love in Christ,
Darren

[hebrewroots98]

Dearest Lori
I agree with Joe, you ARE being too hard on yourself; plus that (self hatered) can be a tactic that satan uses on all of us at times.   You and I have spoken and I know that you have a BEAUTIFUL HEART!!!  You have a very conscientious spirit and you try very hard to put others above yourself; that is a gift of humility!  I do know that alot of times that we all suffer because we are lonely for daily fellowship with those of like mind and we just cant seem to have them in the flesh around us when we need them; we are scattered abroad and that hurts.  Darren posted some excellent scriptures for you to contemplate.

I hope to talk to ya soon Lori!!!  You are thought of alot more than I call you (for sure!)  You are missed

[DWIGHT]

Hi all,

So much wisdom in these posts.  I've learned more from your posts and Ray's writings in these last few months than I did in fifty years of Christianity.  I'm not blaming Christianity, but rather thank God for it.  If God had not left them, we would not be here.  Just like Israel's blindness led to the salvation of the Gentiles.

For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. Rom. 11:25

Seems that every evil thing that the enemy can throw at us, God turns it into good.  It never feels good to go through the rough times though, I don't care what anybody says.  We've all had days where we wished we'd never gotten out of bed.  In fact, I've had weeks like that.  Why God?  But when God finally brings me through, there is a peace that cannot be explained.

Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Lori, I think you answered your own question.  You said, I hate the way I act many times (although then I will have a day or two where I think maybe I am starting to conquer sin but it doesn't last) and just wonder why God takes so long to change us once we come to understand we are the beast....this beast in us, is much more powerful than we think...

 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them...Rev. 13:7

This beast in us can and will defeat us if we let him.  But greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world (our flesh).

You asked about those seals; we have to go through each one in our lifetime, they're all for our us.  And Christ is the one who opens each one as we can bear it. 

 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Rev. 5:9-10

When Christ opened the fifth seal, John saw all those souls that had been slain for the word of God.  We are being slain now...this is judgment day for us...God is beheading the beast in us as we speak.  This is not in the future....Jesus is, was and will be, and he that endures to the end will be saved.  Like Darren says, we will never completely lose the beast...until the end.

In Him,

Dwight
 

[hillsbororiver]

This process of judgment is a real and gut wrenching experience at times, in my own case I have had old forgotten wrongs I have done in my past become painfully fresh, as if it happened yesterday. Things I had previously justified became glaringly wrong, sinful and evil in my eyes, the time to bitterly repent had/has arrived.

There are times when anger, rage, jealousy, envy, impatience, lust, and all the things I have begun to despise rear their ugly faces and once again I fall, fail and stumble over my flesh.

 

Joe,

I understand and agree with your view on this topic.  There is much pain in seeing ourselves for who we truly are and what we have been.  To come to the point of true repentance is not a pleasant experience.  This flesh takes no pleasure in dying.  If our hearts and minds are being converted, we are feeling the pain of this experience.

Rene'

Rene' you made a great point about "this flesh taking no pleasure in dying." It may lapse into a coma for a time but it will spring back to a vigorous life sometimes at the slightest provocation or when we least expect it.

This process really started with me even before I was aware of what was going on, it certainly was a "strange thing" (1Peter 4:12) for the first few years, it wasn't until I read about "The Beast Within" on Bible Truths that it began to make perfect sense.

This has been a great thread, this to me is one of the most incredible Truths I have learned of, this process of dying (daily) to the flesh and the emptying of our carnal self so His Spirit can displace our natural man.

Thanks to all who posted here!

Joe

[Redbird]

Hi brothers and sisters,

Yes, the incredible pain of true repentence is massive.  I thought I would be transformed instantly afterward.  But it has been several years, and The Good Lord is still pulling weeds in me.  But I now realize, that there is nothing, AND I MEAN NOTHING, in this world compared to THE HIGH CALLING OF GOD.

With much Love,
Lisa

[hebrewroots98]

ABSOLUTELY!!!  WE would have it no other way than what we are going through right now.  This beast within is an amazing truth that I am just learning as well.  I mean, to have 'known' for the pst 28 years that the beast was 'someone else' and to know that I was looking diligently for that 'other person who is the beast' just blows my mind sometimes; ha, just to find out after so many years that the beast was here with me all aong, and that the beast IS ME...God has a great sense of humor doesn't HE?

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

To All,

  Wow, I have really missed out on some good stuff.  Another great thread.  Thanks for the words of wisdom here.

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire

[Firefly]

Thank you to everyone for your replys and encouraging words. I understand that the the bible especially the book of revelation is for each of us and that we must live it out. I just do not understand each individual symbol etc. For instance I have no idea what seal I am currently on! I have thought about the trials we/I face each day and they are nothing like what the apostles faced. I agree they appear to be the same as what the world faces. I too agree with Joe that this process started in me also before I knew what was going on....now it just makes so much more sense. I have NEVER felt that I fit into this world (before I was a christian, and after and now I definately do not feel as if I fit.  ) I have to admit one thought I have had is that if I do not end up overcoming...do I have to do this all over again in the lake of fire!!!! I hope not...I don't think I could take it twice.

I am so happy to have found all of you. The encouragement God provides even by just reading your posts means so much to me. I truly am thankful.
Lori 


Philippians 3:10-15
 10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

 11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

 12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

 15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

[eggi]

Roy,

You point towards an important point; the everyday trials of life are faced by all of mankind. You state:

I do, however, doubt that the many that mention of their daily trials and tribulations speak of the same thing that the scriptures mention.

I think you are right that trials and tribulations are primarily related to spiritual issues.

Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. (Mat 13:18-23 KJV)

The tribulations have a physical side to them too. In Acts 14 we read about how Paul was stoned and had tribulations because of the word:

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. (Act 14:22 KJV)

On the other hand, Christians in the traditional church are also being persecuted because of their faith. The same goes for many Buddhists, Jews and many more. Some people are persecuted because of their race or political conviction. But are they persecuted because of the word?

The difference is for what reason we are being persecuted, are we persecuted because we are ministers of God?

But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;

By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;

As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
(2Co 6:4-10 KJV)

All kinds of people have tribulations and suffer persecution, but not all turn to the LORD:

When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them. (Deu 4:30-31 KJV)

[Redbird]

Eggi,

Excellent observation!

Lisa