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[mrsnacks]

I am trying to understand the blinding of God and revealing of truth. I have heard it said that God blinds those to the truths and reveals truths to those in His own time. Why is that ? For example I have heard of UR in the past and ignored . Then one day a few months ago I had gone on this site and my eyes were opened. It all made sense. Was my eyes blinded before by God to this and then He revealed and opened my eyes ? Does that mean if He didn't blind me - I would've seen ? Why is it that people don't just get it ? Maybe some of you can explain this to me. I know that God does it but why ? What is His purpose ?

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Mrsnacks,

  Very good questions and I do not claim to know all.  But I know that things happen in God's timing.  Once this is understood, then the questions fall away.  God is so much higher than us, his thoughts are higher than our thoughts, and his ways greater than our ways.  When one rests in this, then the response instead of the questions is one of awe and love and thanksgiving.  I am so in awe of God that he knows all, and love him to know that I do not have to worry that he has me in the palm of his hands no matter what may go on in the world.  It is so nice to rest assured in things of that nature. 

  I will be reading this thread with great interest.

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire

[josh]

Mr. Snacks

Actually it is not God who blinds those (albiet it is part of God's sovereign plan)... but rather Satan who does the blinding.

2 Cor. 4:3-4
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

It is God through Christ who lifts the veil and takes away the blindness of the world in His perfect timing.

2 Cor. 3:12-14
Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.

Evil is a necessary part the education that the elect are receiving in this life and that the rest of humanity will learn in the Lake of Fire. The Judgements of God will teach us righteousness (Isaiah 26:9)

Through God's judgement and His revelation of truth that will unblind us... we shall see that without Him we are but beasts."

Eccl. 3:17-18
I said to myself, "God will judge both the righteous man and the wicked man," for a time for every matter and for every deed is there.

I said to myself concerning the sons of men, "God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts."

Hope this helps a little.
Josh

[Jackie Lee]

There are some things my eyes has been opened to such as no free will that came easy for me.
Hell was another that came easy.
The beast I am having a problem with, it just don't seem sensible to me at this time.
I can't figure out that no one can buy or sell without the mark.
I hope someone can explain that to me.
 A thought just now hit me, could that be our social Security numbers?

 

[Jackie Lee]

I just rememberd something freewill took a while for me to really realize we don't have freewill.
God is showing me in small amounts.

[Kat]

Hi Jackie,

I know how you feel, when you are just not getting something 
I have brought excerpts from Ray's article # 14 'The Beast Within.'
I hope this will help 

http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html ------------------------------

THE BEAST WITHIN / THE MAN OF SIN / THE SON OF PERDITION

I showed from the Scriptures in our last installment that we only become aware of the beast when we are standing on the "sand of the sea." AFTER our spiritual house built upon spiritual sand FALLS DOWN, and WE fall down. And this is precisely why Paul tells us that the

"…day of Christ… shall not come [to US] except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST…" (II Thes. 2:1-2).

This "fall" by the way is not a little slip or a little stumble. It is a complete and total SPIRITUAL FALL! We all come to Christ with a simple childlike innocence. But … BUT, once we are in "the church of our choice," we start to get educated in the ways of Christendom. We learn of many rules based on the unscriptural traditions of men. We delight in many of these rules and traditions (sometimes not all of them), and before we know it, our new religion sooner or later TAKES US RIGHT BACK INTO THE WORLD that we thought we came out of.
WHEN WILL I SEE THE BEAST WITHIN?

Paul wasn’t telling the unbelieving world that "ye are yet carnal." Nor was Jesus telling the world that they had "left the first love." No, Paul and Jesus are both telling THE CHURCH that they are "yet carnal and have left their first love"! In other words, AFTER coming into a church, AFTER they have accepted Christ, AFTER they have pursued their walk with God, AFTER they have built a spiritual house upon the sand, AFTER they have become indoctrinated with the commandments of men and the traditions of men, can one fall away and be in a position to actually spiritually SEE THE BEAST WITHIN! SEE the man of sin and the son of perdition. See your carnal-minded, God hating, SINS. You and I and all who have be enlightened by God’s word and our own failures in life, can surely see that we are all spiritually, WILD BEASTS.

If you insist that: "Ray! I don’t see myself as a spiritual BEAST, or a man of SIN, or the son of PERDITION [destruction]." Well, all I can to say is to parrot Paul: "YE ARE YET CARNAL."
WE ARE ALL PRODIGAL SONS

You all know the parable. The son of a rich man wanted his inheritance NOW. And so he went into a far country and wasted his inheritance with riotous living—doing what seemed RIGHT in his own eyes. Enjoying life, having a good time. When he was physically and morally broke, he took a job slopping the pigs, and finally eating the slop of the pigs, himself. His selfish, carnal, house built on shifting sands FELL! "And GREAT was the fall thereof."

He had "left his first love" of his Father who obliged him in his "free will" decision to pursue his own happiness. But now, with his face in the watery slop of the pigs, he sees his reflection looking back at him—a BEAST—a man of great sin—a son in the state of spiritual perdition. What will he do?

He said:

"I will arise and go to my Father, and will say unto Him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before Thee, And am no more worthy to be called Thy son: make me as one of Thy hired servants… But the Father said to His servant, Bring forth the best robe [‘…for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints,' Rev. 19:8], and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand…

…[‘And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph’s hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck; And he made him to ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried before him, Bow the knee and he made him ruler over all the land of Egypt,’ (Gen. 41:42-43). "To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with Me {second chariot from Christ}…" (Rev. 3:21), "And to he that overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations {ALL of them, not just Egypt}]…

…For this my son was [spiritually] DEAD, and is alive again; he was LOST [pollumi—lost, destroyed, vanished] and is found. And they began to be merry" (Luke 15-11-24).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a email link on the mark of the beast.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2807.0.html

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Jackie Lee]

Thanks Kat, Thanks a lot I believe I am the beast I just am having a difficult time accepting and understanding.
Thanks for the links,  it took me almost a month to see we do not have freewill but now without a doubt I know we do not.
Once I really understand <then there is no doubt,> we are the beast I will know just like with freewill.
I am off to check out the links.
I am loving the truths I am learning here...Jackie

[DWIGHT]

Mrsnacks,

I just want to add a little to the wonderful post made by Josh.  If we really want a type of being blind and why we are blind, read the entire 9th chapter of John.

In Him,

Dwight

[mrsnacks]

Mr. Snacks

Actually it is not God who blinds those (albiet it is part of God's sovereign plan)... but rather Satan who does the blinding.

2 Cor. 4:3-4
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

It is God through Christ who lifts the veil and takes away the blindness of the world in His perfect timing.

2 Cor. 3:12-14
Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.

Evil is a necessary part the education that the elect are receiving in this life and that the rest of humanity will learn in the Lake of Fire. The Judgements of God will teach us righteousness (Isaiah 26:9)

Through God's judgement and His revelation of truth that will unblind us... we shall see that without Him we are but beasts."

Eccl. 3:17-18
I said to myself, "God will judge both the righteous man and the wicked man," for a time for every matter and for every deed is there.

I said to myself concerning the sons of men, "God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts."

Hope this helps a little.
Josh
-------------------------------
Thanks. If satan is doing the blinding and God is allowing Him to for a greater purpose right ? So isn't God doing the blinding in a way ? So if one cannot see the truths then is it simply because they are blinded ,or is not wanting to see a form of blindness.

Let us say an opportunity arises and I am sharing UR with a fellow christian and they don't want to hear it after a certain point. They think I am a heretic. Is that blindness on their part ? They can see your point and yet they refuse to accept the possibility that their view of eternal torment is wrong.

[josh]

Mr. Snacks,

You state:

Thanks. If satan is doing the blinding and God is allowing Him to for a greater purpose right ? So isn't God doing the blinding in a way?

While I understand your form of logic... we must be careful when interpruting and attempting to understand the scriptures to not make assumptions about what God has done, is doing or will continue to do... especially when it is not stated in scripture.

The scriptures record many evil actions of humanity... the scriptures also state that God works all things after the council of His own will... well then according to the logic of your first statement we must assume that "in a way" it is actually God who is doing the evil, right?

Wrong! We must not venture away from what is actually stated in the scriptures, otherwise we will end up again with an assortment of man-made doctrines such as free-will, the rapture and the trinity. (All 3 which are made up and never mentioned in scripture.)

Let me give you a few examples:

Does God lie?

The scriptures tell us that God sends lying spirits.

1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has spoken evil concerning you."

So, "in a way" God does lie, right? Wrong.

The scriptures tell us that God "never" lies...

Titus 1:1-4
Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to further the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth which accords with godliness, in hope of eternal life which God, who never lies, promised ages ago and at the proper time manifested in his word through the preaching with which I have been entrusted by command of God our Savior;

The scriptures tell us that God creates man with lusts that temp him and draw him away.

James 1:14
But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

So then, "in a way" God does tempt man, right? NO!

James 1:13:
Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one;

See where this is going?

The scriptures do not state that God blinds men... they state that it is Satan, the god of this world, that blinds men.

2 Cor. 4:3-4
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

The scriptures also tell us that it is God who unveils our eyes so that we can see!

2 Cor. 3:12-14
Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.

So unless you can show some scripture that plainly states that it is God who blinds humanity, I would be very careful in making that assumption... otherwise, it will simply become a stumbling block to your understanding.

Secondly, you state:

So if one cannot see the truths then is it simply because they are blinded ,or is not wanting to see a form of blindness.

Spiritually we are all born blind because the flesh is emnity to God.

Romans 8:6-7
To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile [emnity] to God; it does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

It is through the chastisement of God that we learn righteousness... and through this process our eyes become unveiled.

Hebrews 12:10-11
For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but He disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.

For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Blindness is not receiving chastisment and refusing to learn from it.

Lastly, you state:

Let us say an opportunity arises and I am sharing UR with a fellow christian and they don't want to hear it after a certain point. They think I am a heretic. Is that blindness on their part ? They can see your point and yet they refuse to accept the possibility that their view of eternal torment is wrong.

In an earlier post from this thread, Dwight offered some great scriptures from the 9th chapter of John that are quite revealing concerning the blindness of those who refuse the truth.

John 9:39-41
Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind."

Some of the Pharisees near him heard this, and they said to him, "Are we also blind?"

Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, `We see,' your guilt remains.

The truth is... most people that attend church regularly, wear all the right clothes and read their bible every day for 30 minutes before they go to bed... don't see themselves in the scriptures. They read the words selfishly looking for ways to gain finacial blessing and tips on how to get through the day... but they never use the word as a looking glass to see their own reflection in.

They've already got it all figured out... they already have God reduced down to 16 fundamental doctrines, an apostles creed and a few hymns... they claim that they already "SEE"...

Revelations 3:17
For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing; not knowing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.

Those who are blind claim that they "see"... so they remain unteachable and unable to recieve the lessons in the chastisement. This is blindess.

Fortunately, Mr. Snacks, they will not always remain that way... one day, all will learn the righteousness of God through His judgements... and in so doing, He will lift the veil off of their eyes. Not in our timing, but in His.

Hope this helps.
Josh

[Robin]

That was a great post Josh.

Thank you.

[DWIGHT]

Mrsnacks,

To add what Josh said about God not blinding man, this scripture comes to mind.

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" 2 Thess. 2:11

Just like He sent lying spirits, He also sends strong delusion....that they should believe a lie.

It's hard to tell your friends and loved ones, that in this age, God does'nt want everyone to see the truth, but it is the truth.  So trying to teach a blind man to see, is impossible with man.  Even the man that was born blind in John chapter nine, could'nt convince the religious leaders of that day that he had been blind and was made to see.  They kicked him out of their church.  And when he was kicked out, that's when Jesus found him, and then Jesus revealed Himself to him.  What a great lesson.

In Him,

Dwight

[josh]

Great post Dwight...

Concerning the passage from 2 Thess., it should also be noted when the scriptures say that God sends strong delusions.

2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

It is only after one has "received not the love of the truth" that "for this cause God shall send them strong delusion."

Again, God only sends delusion to those who are already willfully blind.

God's Peace.
Josh

[mrsnacks]

Mr. Snacks,

You state:

Thanks. If satan is doing the blinding and God is allowing Him to for a greater purpose right ? So isn't God doing the blinding in a way?

While I understand your form of logic... we must be careful when interpruting and attempting to understand the scriptures to not make assumptions about what God has done, is doing or will continue to do... especially when it is not stated in scripture.

The scriptures record many evil actions of humanity... the scriptures also state that God works all things after the council of His own will... well then according to the logic of your first statement we must assume that "in a way" it is actually God who is doing the evil, right?

Wrong! We must not venture away from what is actually stated in the scriptures, otherwise we will end up again with an assortment of man-made doctrines such as free-will, the rapture and the trinity. (All 3 which are made up and never mentioned in scripture.)

Let me give you a few examples:

Does God lie?

The scriptures tell us that God sends lying spirits.

1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has spoken evil concerning you."

So, "in a way" God does lie, right? Wrong.

The scriptures tell us that God "never" lies...

Titus 1:1-4
Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to further the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth which accords with godliness, in hope of eternal life which God, who never lies, promised ages ago and at the proper time manifested in his word through the preaching with which I have been entrusted by command of God our Savior;

The scriptures tell us that God creates man with lusts that temp him and draw him away.

James 1:14
But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

So then, "in a way" God does tempt man, right? NO!

James 1:13:
Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one;

See where this is going?

The scriptures do not state that God blinds men... they state that it is Satan, the god of this world, that blinds men.

2 Cor. 4:3-4
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

The scriptures also tell us that it is God who unveils our eyes so that we can see!

2 Cor. 3:12-14
Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.

So unless you can show some scripture that plainly states that it is God who blinds humanity, I would be very careful in making that assumption... otherwise, it will simply become a stumbling block to your understanding.

Secondly, you state:

So if one cannot see the truths then is it simply because they are blinded ,or is not wanting to see a form of blindness.

Spiritually we are all born blind because the flesh is emnity to God.

Romans 8:6-7
To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile [emnity] to God; it does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

It is through the chastisement of God that we learn righteousness... and through this process our eyes become unveiled.

Hebrews 12:10-11
For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but He disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.

For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Blindness is not receiving chastisment and refusing to learn from it.

Lastly, you state:

Let us say an opportunity arises and I am sharing UR with a fellow christian and they don't want to hear it after a certain point. They think I am a heretic. Is that blindness on their part ? They can see your point and yet they refuse to accept the possibility that their view of eternal torment is wrong.

In an earlier post from this thread, Dwight offered some great scriptures from the 9th chapter of John that are quite revealing concerning the blindness of those who refuse the truth.

John 9:39-41
Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind."

Some of the Pharisees near him heard this, and they said to him, "Are we also blind?"

Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, `We see,' your guilt remains.

The truth is... most people that attend church regularly, wear all the right clothes and read their bible every day for 30 minutes before they go to bed... don't see themselves in the scriptures. They read the words selfishly looking for ways to gain finacial blessing and tips on how to get through the day... but they never use the word as a looking glass to see their own reflection in.

They've already got it all figured out... they already have God reduced down to 16 fundamental doctrines, an apostles creed and a few hymns... they claim that they already "SEE"...

Revelations 3:17
For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing; not knowing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.

Those who are blind claim that they "see"... so they remain unteachable and unable to recieve the lessons in the chastisement. This is blindess.

Fortunately, Mr. Snacks, they will not always remain that way... one day, all will learn the righteousness of God through His judgements... and in so doing, He will lift the veil off of their eyes. Not in our timing, but in His.

Hope this helps.
Josh

-------------------------------------------------



So are you saying that God putting a lying spirit in the mouth of some prophets is not the same as God telling a lie ?

I am trying to understand this so forgive me for not getting it as yet. So because of our flesh and carnal mind - is what you are saying is that we are naturally blind to begin with.I agree. Satan does blind us but because of our old nature we are blind to begin with. So it is God that opens our eyes to see. And when Jesus spoke in parables - most everyone didn't get it because it wasn't their time to get it.But you also quoted scriptures that say that there is a veil over the gospel to those who are perishing. Why the veil ? I mean no disrespect but it does seem contradictory on the surface. Just like when those who are defending the trinity doctrine will resort to saying it is a mystery and beyond logic and our ability to understand as soon as you raise questions against that doctrine.

And I am beginning to see that the stories in the Bible are not about the characters and their lives, but it is a mirror reflection of us in our lives right ?
In Sunday school or when a pastor is preaching about Moses, Paul, or others- he is referring to their lives and what we can learn from their examples to help us.
That is not it because anyone could see that and come to those conclusions.
But it is a reflection about us. Paul denying Christ 3 times is about me denying Christ before God called and chose me. IT is about the many opportunities I had to stand up for the truth and retreated and lied denying My Lord. To many in the church read the Bible as a self help book. A means to an end. Or they see it as a bunch of rules we have to start following as we walk in Christ. Legalism.

[josh]

Mr. Snacks,

No, "I" am not saying that God sending a lying spirit is not the same as God telling a lie... it is the SCRIPTURES that declare it.

Num 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

1Sa 15:29 
And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.

Titus 1:1-4
Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to further the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth which accords with godliness, in hope of eternal life which God, who never lies, promised ages ago and at the proper time manifested in his word through the preaching with which I have been entrusted by command of God our Savior;

Heb 6:17-20 
Wherein God, willing more abundantly to show unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
 
Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.


Mr. Snacks, the scriptures also tell us that God not only created evil... but that He also brings it to pass.

Isa 45:6-7
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amo 3:6 
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not doneit?


Should we then assume that God Himself is evil, because He uses it as part of His sovereign plan? Absolutely not! There is no darkness in God.

1Jo 1:5-7 
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Jam 1:17 
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Good and Evil (all variations of evil, even lying) are part of God's plan to accomplish His will, but what is His will?

Joh 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1Ti 2:3-4 
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 4:10
For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.

2Pe 3:9 
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Tit 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,


God will accomplish His righteous & sovereign will...

Psa 33:10-11 
The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to naught: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.
The counsel of the LORD standeth forever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations

Isa 25:1
O LORD, thou art my God; I will exalt thee, I will praise thy name; for thou hast done wonderful things; thy counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.

Isa 40:8 
The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever.

Isa 46:10-11 
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

We must Understand that the intent of all God's actions toward His creation, even causing Satan to blind the world and sending lying spirits in the mouth of prophets,  is for the purpose of the salvation of all men and the summing up of all things so that God may be ALL in ALL.

Hope this helps.

God's Peace.
Josh

[dogcombat]

Josh,

I think I know where mrsnacks is coming from.  We read in Exodus, the following

And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. (4:21)

In Chapter 7 The Lord says to Moses

2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

 3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

 4 But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.

13 And he[The Lord] hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

 14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuseth to let the people go.

Chapter 8

15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

32 And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

Chapter 9

12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.

34 And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants.

 35 And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the LORD had spoken by Moses.

Finally In Chapter 10

1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:
 
2 And that thou mayest tell in the ears of thy son, and of thy son's son, what things I have wrought in Egypt, and my signs which I have done among them; that ye may know how that I am the LORD.

What these verses tell us is that while, yes Pharoh did choose in some of them to harden his heart.  He was caused to make this choice by the Lord hardening his heart to begin with.  The reason?  That He "might shew these, my signs before him."

We know that God works all things according to the counsel of His will.  He is the potter we are the clay.  In Romans 9:11 we find out more:

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

This explains verse 13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

And then

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

 18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
 
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

I won't pretend to understand the counsel of our Lord's will.  However, I can rest in the understanding that "God works together all things for the good of those who love God"  (Romans 8:26)

Ches

[josh]

Ches,

Great post... it caused me to do some searching this morning and I came across these passages:


Exodus 4:10-12
10: But Moses said to the LORD, "Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either heretofore or since thou hast spoken to thy servant; but I am slow of speech and of tongue."
11: Then the LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?
12: Now therefore go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall speak."

John 12:35-43
35: Jesus said to them, "The light is with you for a little longer. Walk while you have the light, lest the darkness overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes.
36: While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light." When Jesus had said this, he departed and hid himself from them.
37: Though he had done so many signs before them, yet they did not believe in him;
38: it was that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: "Lord, who has believed our report, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"
39: Therefore they could not believe. For Isaiah again said,
40: "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they should see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, and turn for me to heal them."
41: Isaiah said this because he saw his glory and spoke of him.
42: Nevertheless many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
43: for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Matthew 13:10-17
10: Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?"
11: And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
12: For to him who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
13: This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14: With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says: `You shall indeed hear but never understand, and you shall indeed see but never perceive.
15: For this people's heart has grown dull, and their ears are heavy of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should perceive with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and turn for me to heal them.'
16: But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.
17: Truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

Isaiah 6:5-10
5: And I said: "Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!"
6: Then flew one of the seraphim to me, having in his hand a burning coal which he had taken with tongs from the altar.
7: And he touched my mouth, and said: "Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin forgiven."
8: And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I! Send me."
9: And he said, "Go, and say to this people: `Hear and hear, but do not understand; see and see, but do not perceive.'
10: Make the heart of this people fat, and their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."

I whole heartedly agree, ches... "we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him" and "all things after the counsel of His will."

I have learned much from this thread, and I continually encouraged by this forum as I learn and grow. Thanks.

God's Peace.
Josh

ps. Mr. Snacks... do you feel as though your originial question has been answered?

[dogcombat]

Josh,

I've learned a lot too.  Those verses you just posted show that while He has blinded us for a time, He is the light that reveals Himself to us..in HIS time. 

The question I posted in another thread comes to mind.  "How can you be a light (John 12), if you don't comprehend being in darkness (walking in the flesh)?"

God be with you
Ches

[DWIGHT]

Thanks Josh,

Mrsnacks, I think we as human beings, look at spiritual things with physical eyes and the two cannot match.  We see dark as dark, and light as light.  The scriptures speak of spiritual things as shadows and veils, and parables, all of which are intended to reveal to His elect the deep things of God,(the kingdom of heaven if you will).  These things are intended to be hidden from the called of this world, but to us they are revealed by His Spirit, for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.  If we are not in the Spirit (His Word), they will never be revealed to us, they will remain a shadow, a veil, or a parable.

We do not see the way God sees. Listen to this verse, "Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee." Ps. 139:12. See what I mean?  We see only darkness or light, but to God there is no difference.  That's because God is Spirit, therefore, when we are in His Spirit there can never be any darkness even though to our flesh there appears darkness.

You asked why God blinds some and not others...."Romans 9:23
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory....that's why.

In Him,

Dwight