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Why does God blind those ?
Robin:
That was a great post Josh.
Thank you.
DWIGHT:
Mrsnacks,
To add what Josh said about God not blinding man, this scripture comes to mind.
"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" 2 Thess. 2:11
Just like He sent lying spirits, He also sends strong delusion....that they should believe a lie.
It's hard to tell your friends and loved ones, that in this age, God does'nt want everyone to see the truth, but it is the truth. So trying to teach a blind man to see, is impossible with man. Even the man that was born blind in John chapter nine, could'nt convince the religious leaders of that day that he had been blind and was made to see. They kicked him out of their church. And when he was kicked out, that's when Jesus found him, and then Jesus revealed Himself to him. What a great lesson.
In Him,
Dwight
josh:
Great post Dwight...
Concerning the passage from 2 Thess., it should also be noted when the scriptures say that God sends strong delusions.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
It is only after one has "received not the love of the truth" that "for this cause God shall send them strong delusion."
Again, God only sends delusion to those who are already willfully blind.
God's Peace.
Josh
mrsnacks:
--- Quote from: In Medias Res on April 07, 2007, 06:26:16 AM ---Mr. Snacks,
You state:
--- Quote from: mrsnacks on April 07, 2007, 02:15:14 AM ---Thanks. If satan is doing the blinding and God is allowing Him to for a greater purpose right ? So isn't God doing the blinding in a way?
--- End quote ---
While I understand your form of logic... we must be careful when interpruting and attempting to understand the scriptures to not make assumptions about what God has done, is doing or will continue to do... especially when it is not stated in scripture.
The scriptures record many evil actions of humanity... the scriptures also state that God works all things after the council of His own will... well then according to the logic of your first statement we must assume that "in a way" it is actually God who is doing the evil, right?
Wrong! We must not venture away from what is actually stated in the scriptures, otherwise we will end up again with an assortment of man-made doctrines such as free-will, the rapture and the trinity. (All 3 which are made up and never mentioned in scripture.)
Let me give you a few examples:
Does God lie?
The scriptures tell us that God sends lying spirits.
1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has spoken evil concerning you."
So, "in a way" God does lie, right? Wrong.
The scriptures tell us that God "never" lies...
Titus 1:1-4
Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to further the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth which accords with godliness, in hope of eternal life which God, who never lies, promised ages ago and at the proper time manifested in his word through the preaching with which I have been entrusted by command of God our Savior;
The scriptures tell us that God creates man with lusts that temp him and draw him away.
James 1:14
But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
So then, "in a way" God does tempt man, right? NO!
James 1:13:
Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one;
See where this is going?
The scriptures do not state that God blinds men... they state that it is Satan, the god of this world, that blinds men.
2 Cor. 4:3-4
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
The scriptures also tell us that it is God who unveils our eyes so that we can see!
2 Cor. 3:12-14
Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.
But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.
So unless you can show some scripture that plainly states that it is God who blinds humanity, I would be very careful in making that assumption... otherwise, it will simply become a stumbling block to your understanding.
Secondly, you state:
--- Quote from: mrsnacks on April 07, 2007, 02:15:14 AM ---So if one cannot see the truths then is it simply because they are blinded ,or is not wanting to see a form of blindness.
--- End quote ---
Spiritually we are all born blind because the flesh is emnity to God.
Romans 8:6-7
To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile [emnity] to God; it does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
It is through the chastisement of God that we learn righteousness... and through this process our eyes become unveiled.
Hebrews 12:10-11
For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but He disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.
For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
Blindness is not receiving chastisment and refusing to learn from it.
Lastly, you state:
--- Quote from: mrsnacks on April 07, 2007, 02:15:14 AM ---Let us say an opportunity arises and I am sharing UR with a fellow christian and they don't want to hear it after a certain point. They think I am a heretic. Is that blindness on their part ? They can see your point and yet they refuse to accept the possibility that their view of eternal torment is wrong.
--- End quote ---
In an earlier post from this thread, Dwight offered some great scriptures from the 9th chapter of John that are quite revealing concerning the blindness of those who refuse the truth.
John 9:39-41
Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind."
Some of the Pharisees near him heard this, and they said to him, "Are we also blind?"
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, `We see,' your guilt remains.
The truth is... most people that attend church regularly, wear all the right clothes and read their bible every day for 30 minutes before they go to bed... don't see themselves in the scriptures. They read the words selfishly looking for ways to gain finacial blessing and tips on how to get through the day... but they never use the word as a looking glass to see their own reflection in.
They've already got it all figured out... they already have God reduced down to 16 fundamental doctrines, an apostles creed and a few hymns... they claim that they already "SEE"...
Revelations 3:17
For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing; not knowing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.
Those who are blind claim that they "see"... so they remain unteachable and unable to recieve the lessons in the chastisement. This is blindess.
Fortunately, Mr. Snacks, they will not always remain that way... one day, all will learn the righteousness of God through His judgements... and in so doing, He will lift the veil off of their eyes. Not in our timing, but in His.
Hope this helps.
Josh
--- End quote ---
-------------------------------------------------
So are you saying that God putting a lying spirit in the mouth of some prophets is not the same as God telling a lie ?
I am trying to understand this so forgive me for not getting it as yet. So because of our flesh and carnal mind - is what you are saying is that we are naturally blind to begin with.I agree. Satan does blind us but because of our old nature we are blind to begin with. So it is God that opens our eyes to see. And when Jesus spoke in parables - most everyone didn't get it because it wasn't their time to get it.But you also quoted scriptures that say that there is a veil over the gospel to those who are perishing. Why the veil ? I mean no disrespect but it does seem contradictory on the surface. Just like when those who are defending the trinity doctrine will resort to saying it is a mystery and beyond logic and our ability to understand as soon as you raise questions against that doctrine.
And I am beginning to see that the stories in the Bible are not about the characters and their lives, but it is a mirror reflection of us in our lives right ?
In Sunday school or when a pastor is preaching about Moses, Paul, or others- he is referring to their lives and what we can learn from their examples to help us.
That is not it because anyone could see that and come to those conclusions.
But it is a reflection about us. Paul denying Christ 3 times is about me denying Christ before God called and chose me. IT is about the many opportunities I had to stand up for the truth and retreated and lied denying My Lord. To many in the church read the Bible as a self help book. A means to an end. Or they see it as a bunch of rules we have to start following as we walk in Christ. Legalism.
josh:
Mr. Snacks,
No, "I" am not saying that God sending a lying spirit is not the same as God telling a lie... it is the SCRIPTURES that declare it.
Num 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
1Sa 15:29
And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.
Titus 1:1-4
Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to further the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth which accords with godliness, in hope of eternal life which God, who never lies, promised ages ago and at the proper time manifested in his word through the preaching with which I have been entrusted by command of God our Savior;
Heb 6:17-20
Wherein God, willing more abundantly to show unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Mr. Snacks, the scriptures also tell us that God not only created evil... but that He also brings it to pass.
Isa 45:6-7
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Amo 3:6
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not doneit?
Should we then assume that God Himself is evil, because He uses it as part of His sovereign plan? Absolutely not! There is no darkness in God.
1Jo 1:5-7
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Jam 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Good and Evil (all variations of evil, even lying) are part of God's plan to accomplish His will, but what is His will?
Joh 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1Ti 2:3-4
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 4:10
For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.
2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Tit 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
God will accomplish His righteous & sovereign will...
Psa 33:10-11
The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to naught: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.
The counsel of the LORD standeth forever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations
Isa 25:1
O LORD, thou art my God; I will exalt thee, I will praise thy name; for thou hast done wonderful things; thy counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.
Isa 40:8
The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever.
Isa 46:10-11
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
We must Understand that the intent of all God's actions toward His creation, even causing Satan to blind the world and sending lying spirits in the mouth of prophets, is for the purpose of the salvation of all men and the summing up of all things so that God may be ALL in ALL.
Hope this helps.
God's Peace.
Josh
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