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Author Topic: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?  (Read 6421 times)

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mrsnacks

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I have learned here that one can study and study and take courses ( like I did) and not even arrive at the many truths I have learned at this site and many others.
How does God enlighten us ? How does He give us understanding ? I know it comes from Him but is there something that we must do ? It then sounds like works if I have to do something to understand truths.

It is almost like everything I have learned from the theologian giants of Christendom has been wrong. And they sound so profound and intellectual. Yet these truths I have learned sound so simple. How can a person read one verse and come up with a completely different perspective ? How does one know if they are right about this or that ? Ray does sound confident and he uses the word "crock " a lot when he hears something he doesn't agree to. But how does he really know or any of us know. I have been wrong so many times and have changed positions back and forth.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 04:42:58 PM by mrsnacks »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2007, 06:23:09 PM »

Hello mrsnacks

The Scripture that came to mind as I read your post was the following:

Eph 4 : 14 So then, we may no longer be children, tossed like shops to and fro between chance gusts of teaching and wavering with every changing wind of doctrine, the prey of the cunning and cleverness of unscrupulous men, gamblers engaged in every shifting form of trickery in inventing errors to mislead.

The fruit of the teachings from Ray that I have received have been healing separation and liberation, setting me free from the seductive hold of Mystery Babylon and the Heresy of the Harlot.

John 8 : 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

I have read 95 % of all of the Bible Truth site and have pondered and meditated on the teachings. I have studied and highlighted and considered and weighed up the conclusions. This has all been done because Christ has led me to do this and has given me the mental capacity, the available time and the necessary resources to do so. It is ALL from HIM.

Christ has crystallised the teachings into my heart and soul. HE did it! HE opened my mind. HE has given all good gifts. What I have received is what HE has considered in HIS infinite Wisdom, appropriate for HIS Plan for my life HE has purchased. I can do NOTHING of any good or merit as you observe so wisely and correctly. No one can deserve to not be tossed to and fro by every changing wind of doctrine.

As a tip that might help you however.....I have come to a place in my life where I no longer open the windows of my mind to let any hail storm or wind come in anymore. I do not give my ear or eyes to the world or the doctrines of the Harlot any more. But then again....I gave more than 40 years of my life looking and listening to false teaching and blinding heresy. Jesus restored  my eyes and healed my ears. HE alone does what it takes and until He does, we have to ride the storm and experience the tossing growing pains that may lead us into solitary seclusion with Christ. He shuts out distraction. He closes the door to Heresy and He opens the door to truth and understanding and you can know it is HIM through the peace and joy that follow.

This is my experience talking here and I do not expect anyone to agree or believe what I write. It is true for me though and I hope in some way it can help or encourage.....

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 06:29:49 PM by Arcturus »
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YellowStone

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2007, 07:17:28 PM »

Mr Snacks,

What I am going to say will no doubt cause some discussion, but I believe from the very center of my being, which is God and his Son, that the truth was always in me and always available to me.

Being that I was exposed to many different churchs/beliefs as a child, I was turned off of all that was taught. The math just never equated. One God and a hundred or more doctrines. Simply put, if 99 were wrong, why not 100? Or, put another way, if all were only partly correct then they could not be correct at all. Truth is truth, not part truths.

Thankfully, I was caused to believe that there was nothing remotely as complicated in "knowing" and "serving" God as I was led to believe in church. Ray, has been such a blessing, not because he is causing me to unlearn years of indoctrination; but rather that he is saying what I knew to be true. :)

Of course I cannot say I could voice everything, for I never once considered that Jehovah of the OT and Jesus Christ of the NT were one and the same, BUT the moment I heard it from Ray, I knew it to be true. I knew all of the contentious Scriptures that seemed to contradict, so I guess you could say I knew the truth when I heard it. (How could I know if it were not already there)

This is what I am trying to say, the truth is in us, it is just waiting to be released. This is why truth can be found anywhere at anytime. No one person has the sole handle on truth.

Man seeks to make God available to only a few. Man also seeks to confine God to the four walls of a church or a temple; likewise to the constraints of a doctrine or belief. Man in his blindness and foolishness then "gives" God to whom they may, and if someone with an earnest question dare to ask, they are often looked upon with disdain. (Been there, recieved that)

I am reposting a section that I wrote in another thread to a similar question of yours.

John 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Ah, but many will ask: "How can I ever know God? I am poor, I cannot afford books or tuition ."

But as you said, knowing and learning of God and his Divinity is not difficult, and no books or tuition is required.

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

DO you see the significance in this Scripture. All that needs to known about God, including his eternal Godhead, can be learned from creation from the things HE made, and man is without excuse. But they learned of God, but rejected God; preferring to instead to fall victims to their own imaginations and became fools.

As a side note to this:
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

This is in itself, another very simple truth. If one cannot trust God based all that one has learned from creation, then surely one has become a fool. 



Mr Snacks, the TRUTH is available to all. Some seek and never find, while other find and never seek.

I believe that the Truth is something that cannot be found, intead one must be "open" to it. Being "open" does not mean automatically believing everything heard or read.

I would ask you and any other that cares to answer. What is a single truth that is more important to you than the knowledge of God that is to be found in creation. To the point of no man having an excuse for not getting it. Why then did God choose not to make this truth known?

Second guessing God is not a great idea. Can the God which made all things; a flower it's beauty, a sunrise it spectacularness, a sunset its glory; a song bird its song, etc. even be found in any church and the doctrines within?

Just my thoughts, comments welcome.

Your brother in Christ,
Darren
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 09:48:08 PM by YellowStone »
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cherokee

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2007, 12:15:48 PM »

Yellowstone,

I too have felt like you, "that the truth was always in me and always available to me". Whenever I learn something new it's like it was always there it just need something or someone to bring it forword. While reading your post this verse came to mind.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their minds, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.

I'm not sure if that's what this verse is talking about but, it sure seems to fit. If I am not understanding this right please, someone set me straight.

ever learning in Christ,

Suzie
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josh

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2007, 04:58:25 PM »

Darren,

You state: "I believe from the very center of my being, which is God and his Son, that the truth was always in me and always available to me."

What is you scriptural witness for this statement? I read and reread your post to make sure I was not missing it...

How can the truth be already "in" us... if the knowledge of the truth is something we have to "come to"?

1 Timothy 2:3-5
This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,


2 Timothy 2:24-26
The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

2 Timothy 3:5-7
For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


Furthermore, is not the truth simply the word of God?

John 17:16-19
"They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth."


And if the truth is already "in" us, why then do we have to be santified "in" truth?

Ephesians 4:20-24
But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.


And do we not have to lay aside our former self in order to put on the new self which is created in righteousness and holiness of the truth?

And what about those who say that they have no sin? Do they have the truth already in them?

1 John 1:7-9
But if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


I'm sorry Darren, I do not agree with you statement. I believe the scriptures clearly tell us that the truth is something that we come to only by the grace of God who has saw fit to reveal it to us in His perfect timing... few in this age, many in the age to come... so that one day He will be ALL in ALL... but not until that time will the truth be in all of us.

God's Peace.
Josh
« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 04:59:48 PM by In Medias Res »
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hillsbororiver

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2007, 09:04:10 PM »

Great post Josh!

I will add some more verses that should show that not all are given the opportunity to know of or about the One True God and His glorious plan for humanity while in this age.


Deu 7:6  For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Deu 7:7  The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Mat 11:25  At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them unto babes.
 
Mat 11:26  Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
 
Mat 11:27  All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 15:16  Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

1Pe 2:9  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:

I can certainly see God's Hand in His creation, the beauty and wonder of the earth and the heavens, but didn't the Egyptians, Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Mayans, etc. also marvel at these wonders, learning the mechanisms by observing nature? Did they not use the the stars to navigate, the sun and moon to mark their days building incredible structures some of which todays engineers would have serious problems duplicating? They had gods, but not the One True Living God.

It is still the case in these times, breakthroughs in DNA knowledge and the compexities of even single cell life all points to a creator, does the world see this? Does this present world still have it's own gods it's own idols?

We will be blind until God deems the scales drop from our eyes and not before.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe



 
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DWIGHT

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2007, 10:45:55 PM »

  Re: good and evil
« Reply #14 on: Today at 10:14:22 AM » Quote Modify Remove 

I posted this on another thread and thought this might help here too.

Maybe there's a difference between those that are called and those that are chosen.  Many are called, including the whole world, right?  Because, eventually, the whole world will be saved, albeit in a different age.  Man, through the creation, can see the invisible things of God so that he is without excuse but like the scripture says,

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Rom. 3:11

"An evil man seeketh only rebellion..."Pro. 17:11


Yet there hundreds of scriptures that talk about seeking God and finding Him if we seek Him with our whole heart.  What I'm saying is that God may only be drawing (dragging) those that He wants to draw in this present age now, and later will draw all men to Himself.  It is all God's doing one way or another.

You're right Joe, the creation helps us see many beautiful things that God has created, but there is no truth in man at all.  Until we're begotten of the Spirit, we're dead, and there is no truth in a dead man.

Dwight


 
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YellowStone

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2007, 12:15:57 AM »

Josh,

I have already stepped on toes today and I wish to do so no more.

But please consider my words:

I believe from the very center of my being, which is God and his Son, that the truth was always in me and always available to me.

Always, being for as long as I remember. Can you really say that I am a liar? Did I say, that I was free of sin?

Darren

« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 12:18:52 AM by YellowStone »
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YellowStone

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2007, 12:28:59 AM »

Dwight, you wrote something brother that made me smile ;)

You're right Joe, the creation helps us see many beautiful things that God has created, but there is no truth in man at all.  Until we're begotten of the Spirit, we're dead, and there is no truth in a dead man.

I guess I do not see the SPIRIT barometer that you see. Because as far as I knew, the relationship between God and anyone, is between God and the said. Are you so certain that there is no truth in any man?

Like I said, I don't see the barometer that measure SPIRIT content. :)

All is of God, my brother
Darren
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Kat

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2007, 01:20:47 AM »


Hi Darren,

Quote
This is what I am trying to say, the truth is in us, it is just waiting to be released.

As I look at scripture it indicates that we 'come' to the truth, that it isn't already there.

1Tim 2:4  who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

John 16:13  When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

John 15:26  And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me.

And this seems to say some will never come to the truth in this life.

2Tim 3:7  always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
v. 8  Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;

These scripture all say we receive the truth from God  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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YellowStone

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2007, 01:37:37 AM »

My dear brothers and sisters,

If I am reading the following wrong, then I am sadly mistaken and seek forgiveness

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

What does it mean, to be without excuse? I think it means that if you don't get it, then you are not excused.

Joe, you are so very right. Many did not get it at all; some got some of it and in "their wisdom" learned to navigate, measure time, etc.

Rom 1:22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

But did everyone fail to see the things of God. Not according to the Scripture,

Psa 26:3 For thy loving kindness [is] before mine eyes: and I have walked in thy truth.

Psa 57:10 For thy mercy [is] great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds.

Psa 98:2  The LORD hath made known his salvation: his righteousness hath he openly shewed in the sight of the heathen.

Psa 98:3  He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.

Psa 25:5  Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou [art] the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.

Psa 40:11 Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me.

I see the above Scriptures as David telling us that he could see the loving kindness of God in creation. He could see the truth, and walked in it. (Please note that I am NOT saying that David did not have a special relationship with God and Jehovah) This truth was available (and still is) all over the Earth.


God promised that he would instill the truth in his people.

Jer 31:31  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:33  But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.  (Ref. Hebrews 8:10)

Here it is, God himself saying that He will put His Truth in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;

Fellow brothers and sisters, I discovered the above Scripture since I posted my original truth statement. I will post it again and let you all be the judge. :)

I believe from the very center of my being, which is God and his Son, that the truth was always in me and always available to me.....This is what I am trying to say, the truth is in us, it is just waiting to be released. This is why truth can be found anywhere at anytime. No one person has the sole handle on truth.

Is not discovery of truth sometimes like a light bulb? Off and dark and in an instant, on and bright.

The light always there, but the darkness overshadowed it.

2Cr 4:6  For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

Psa 97:11 Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart.

Comments welcome,

May God continue to Bless you my brother and sisters,
Darren
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 02:16:49 AM by YellowStone »
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YellowStone

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2007, 01:54:53 AM »

Hi Kat,

I think I can see where our paths part :)

I think we might be able to walk together again, real soon. :)

My responses in blue

As I look at scripture it indicates that we 'come' to the truth, that it isn't already there.

1Tim 2:4  who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Come to the knowledge of truth, is different than obtaining truth. One may hold a truth for years and never recognize it as such

John 16:13  When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

John 15:26  And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me.

Kat, I am not discounting this at all, NOT A BIT!  :) But who can say when the spirit comes? When you're 40, 80 or just a child? Also, (spitting hairs here) God is truth, the spirit is the spirit of this truth. :)

And this seems to say some will never come to the truth in this life.

2Tim 3:7  always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
v. 8  Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;

Kat, the above Scripture witnesses my point very well. Some will never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. They HAVE the truth, yet know it not as truth and resist it. [Rom 1:21]

These scripture all say we receive the truth from God  :)

Kat, I do not believe I ever said that the truth did not come from God, please show where I wrote that so that I can apologize to the whole forum.

God told us that he would put truth inside us and write it on our hearts.

Jer 31:33  But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Thanks for your input. Thank God for this wonderful opportunity to learn of His truth. :)

Your brother in Christ,
Darren




« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 01:59:44 AM by YellowStone »
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DWIGHT

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2007, 02:44:44 AM »

Hi Darren,

You said, "Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

What does it mean, to be without excuse? I think it means that if you don't get it, then you are not excused.


Does this mean that all mankind has had the truth in them always?  It's true that all creation is for mankind to understand that there is a Godhead with eternal power, but is that Godhead in all mankind?  Isn't all mankind dead in their sins (spiritually).

Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses


Mankind is dead spiritually until God makes them alive by His Spirit.  You quoted, 2Cr 4:6  For God, who said,Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

God had to shine His light into our darkness...our death....before He could give us the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

Jn. 14:6
I am the way, the truth, and the life
...Christ is the truth...but He was not always in you.  The light came on when He made you alive and not until then. 

We were all children of wrath and of our father Satan, even Jesus said, "John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Darren, I believe that all that you are seeing happens after we are made alive by His Spirit.  Just the way I see it.

Your brother,

Dwight




 
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YellowStone

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2007, 10:17:02 AM »

Just another jewel that I found, regarding finding God (truth) in Creation. :)

Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Psa 19:2  Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

Psa 19:3  [There is] no speech nor language, [where] their voice is not heard. 

Psa 19:4  Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, 

Psa 19:5  Which [is] as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, [and] rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. 

Psa 19:6  His going forth [is] from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. 

Psa 19:7  The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple. 

Psa 19:8  The statutes of the LORD [are] right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD [is] pure, enlightening the eyes.

Psa 19:9  The fear of the LORD [is] clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD [are] true [and] righteous altogether. 

There is no where on this Earth where His truth through creation is not heard. (Note it did not say "understood") :)

Love to all,
Darren
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 10:57:53 AM by YellowStone »
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hillsbororiver

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2007, 10:57:32 AM »



Man seeks to make God available to only a few.


Darren, I truly do not believe this is the domain of man or even within His power. The Lord reveals Himself to whom He wills.



Deu 7:6  For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Deu 7:7  The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Mat 11:25  At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them unto babes.
 
Mat 11:26  Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
 
Mat 11:27  All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 15:16  Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

1Pe 2:9  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:



Darren,

What you posted on Psalms 19 is truly inspiring but I am seeing this scripture as not pertaining primarily to the here and now, the physical realm, but in the next age when all the rest of creation is experiencing the chastising grace of His Spirit, His refining heat/fire to the eventual conversion of all.

Is this (Psalm 19) not speaking of judgement?

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
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YellowStone

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2007, 11:16:35 AM »

Hi Joe,

You said: "The Lord reveals Himself to whom He wills." Of this I have no doubt at all. However, I have known many "would-be" preachers of truth, who chose to serve additional truths to whom they chose. :( This is of course ridiculous to the extreme; however, their self conceit darkened their hearts and taught their own truth. :(   (Actually it is laughable.  :D)


Joe, when I said that the truth was in me from the beginning, I never said that I understood it as such, and for that matter who can say how much I understand now? :)

This was not my point. Having something and being knowledgeable about it two completely different things. I have access to the internet, but know and understand less than 0.000001% of what it contains I guess.  ???

But this is what "coming" to the truth means in my mind. We are introduced to the Truth, sometimes gradually and sometimes with a jolt.

Jer 31:33  But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I think the real question is: Did God write his truth in the hearts of his people or did he not? :)

I  firmly believe that He did. :)

Luk 12:2  For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

However, did God grant understanding to everyone?

Well I think we can garner something out of the following Scripture:

Jhn 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].

Here we are told that God does indeed measure out his Spirit, but unto Christ, there is no limit.

Of Psalm 19, I believe it is speaking of present time. It appears that Paul drew from this Scripture when he wrote Romans 1:20 and carried on from that point in vs' 21 & 22.

Just my thoughts, if any others have anything to add to this, please do. :)

Your brother in Christ,
Darren

« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 11:47:31 AM by YellowStone »
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hillsbororiver

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2007, 01:15:29 PM »

Hi Joe,

Hello Darren,

(I will make a couple comments in green type)

You said: "The Lord reveals Himself to whom He wills." Of this I have no doubt at all. However, I have known many "would-be" preachers of truth, who chose to serve additional truths to whom they chose. :( This is of course ridiculous to the extreme; however, their self conceit darkened their hearts and taught their own truth. :(   (Actually it is laughable.  :D)


Joe, when I said that the truth was in me from the beginning, I never said that I understood it as such, and for that matter who can say how much I understand now? :)

This was not my point. Having something and being knowledgeable about it two completely different things. I have access to the internet, but know and understand less than 0.000001% of what it contains I guess.  ???

But this is what "coming" to the truth means in my mind. We are introduced to the Truth, sometimes gradually and sometimes with a jolt.

Jer 31:33  But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I think the real question is: Did God write his truth in the hearts of his people or did he not? :)

I  firmly believe that He did. :)

This I certainly agree with, "write His Truth in the hearts of His people" but I was commenting on your earlier statement "Man seeks to make God available only to a few" which I replied that it was not man's call or even within man's power to decrease the availability of God.

Luk 12:2  For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

However, did God grant understanding to everyone?

Well I think we can garner something out of the following Scripture:

Jhn 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].

Here we are told that God does indeed measure out his Spirit, but unto Christ, there is no limit.

Of Psalm 19, I believe it is speaking of present time. It appears that Paul drew from this Scripture when he wrote Romans 1:20 and carried on from that point in vs' 21 & 22.

If you recall my statement I said "Primarily" not "Exclusively" since the majority will be saved in the next age I see this "nothing hid from the heat thereof " (verse 6) being very pertinant to the refining of all creation.

Darren, please read this (Psalm 19) again, can you see how this is true for His people His elect now (in their natural lives) but also true for ALL humanity in the next age?

Just my thoughts, if any others have anything to add to this, please do. :)

Your brother in Christ,
Darren

His Peace to you,

Joe



Hello again Darren,

Let me attempt to restate what I now believe you are saying;

God wrote His Word in the hearts of His chosen people in the very beginning, as He reveals Himself and He removes the scales from their eyes they begin to see what has been before them since their birth but never recognized due to a spiritual blindness.

When we begin the process of Christ living in us we see His Word and Truth as being familiar, like perhaps a long lost family member who we never knew before but immediately recognized once we were introduced, they looked and seemed familiar although we previously "knew them not."

Does this hit the mark of the point you are making?

His Peace to you Brother,

Joe
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Pax Vobiscum

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2007, 01:25:26 PM »

I am so glad that you posted something to which I feel I have something to contribute because it lets me ask, "Is your nickname 'Mr. Snacks', or 'Mrs. Nacks?'"  I am breathless with anticipation.....

New Truths and revelations from God are dicey subjects.  How many other well-meaning seekers have been led down paths of... um... less-than-the-whole-Truth?  They too felt as "led by the Spirit" as anyone here.

I feel an analogy coming on -- somebody stop me!

Consider Universal Truth as an incredible Universal Symphony with Scripture being the score (the written notes from which we play our part).

I can hand you the score to the most beautiful symphony ever written.  You can study it, study about it, learn about the different techniques and elements that make up the piece; but until you hear it played well, you probably will not have a much fuller appreciation of the music (or its author, for that matter).

The love of music is borne of the playing and hearing of the music.  Loving music does not require that you know about it or have a degree in music (but I believe it helps).  It is the sound of music that draws us mystically to the orchestra (cue: Julie Andrews).  A usual reaction is to sate one's hunger to know more about the music, its context, its nuances, its author, and how others have interpreted different passages.  Others may just sit back and enjoy the fullness of the music without a care about those things.  Either of these loves the music equally.

Some of us are conductors, copyists, clarinetists, violinists -- some of us even make complete bassoonists of ourselves from time-to-time(!) -- playing our part.  Playing solo makes us feel incomplete.  Wherever two or three gather, the harmonies bring excitement and joy.  Join a fellowship of like-minded musicians and let the music play in full!

Practice, of course, makes perfection.  Keeping our instrument well-tuned and oiled will keep our part strong and confident. 

Study the score, but remember the score is not the music!!!  (If you understand this, you will understand me better)  The score is merely the means to communicate the music from author to person to person to person.  Quoting measure #114 or comparing measure #1234 against measure #14 is not always edifying to the symphony (or the orchestra members).  Only those who have studied and can play "expertly" should even attempt to do so.

So, "new" truth and "new" revelation....  Does it "fit" with the overall theme and style of the core melody?  Is there a dissonance?  Is it "playable (livable)?"  If someone wants to play a phrase a certain way, can it be done without losing fellow players? 

Music, especially in this analogy, is for everyone; but not everyone will "get" it.  Some will find the symphony phony, others will hear nothing but the simplest melodies and forget them soon after music stops, and others still will experience and share the fullness of the author's intentions -- not being able to get the melody "out of their heads."

I am wary of "new" anything, but am open to different interpretations of a theme as long as the central melody remains intact.  I feel that we too often lose sight of this.

Peace
American Federation of Musicians
Local 161-710


« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 01:30:02 PM by Pax Vobiscum »
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skydreamers

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2007, 02:18:54 PM »

Hey Pax, I thoroughly enjoyed your post!  What a beautiful analogy.  Very cool.

Peace,
Diana
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YellowStone

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Re: How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2007, 02:33:53 PM »

Joe,

Thanks for sharing your view regarding your understanding of what I am saying. Yes, you have worded it inline with my thoughts. Are they also yours?

I have read Psalm 19 over and over and I still see it's message for yesterday, today and tomorrow. (Is, was and will be)

Let me post the remainder of the Chapter and make notes regarding my understanding. :)

Psa 19:10  More to be desired [are they] than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

The truths that are to be found in all of creation (heavens, firmament, clouds) are in Davids mind (mine also) are more valuable than fine gold and sweeter to the heart than any other (wordly) word / doctrine. They are TRUTH. :)

Psa 19:11  Moreover by them is thy servant warned: [and] in keeping of them [there is] great reward.

The truths that are learned, should be well understood and kept always. The reward is life.

Psa 19:12  Who can understand [his] errors? cleanse thou me from secret [faults].

Psa 19:13  Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous [sins]; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

Psa 19:14  Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer

David knew well that he was still a servant of sin; however, he knew also that the truth he learned would keep sin from having dominion over him.

Is this chapter prophetic? I believe it is also talking of the time of Christ. I really believe that the repeated mention of sins and faults in vs's 11, 12, & 13 are referring to today.

Here is what Paul says of learning from creation and what happened to many.

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.[/b]

Rom 1:24  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Rom 1:25  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen

What do you think vs 24 is saying?


There is two parts to this.
1.  even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, (vs 21)
2.  God gave them up to uncleanness

Does "God gave them up to uncleanness " mean God gave them unclean desires, or does it mean instead, that: God allowed them to fall victims of their self wisdom, conceit, lusts, pride etc? The word 'up' would suggest that God figuratively let them walk through the door into the world of Satan.

Please know that I am not saying this was not God's plan.

Just my thoughts brother Joe,

Darren

« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 03:53:18 PM by YellowStone »
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