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How does one arrive at new truths and revelations from God?
YellowStone:
Hi Joe,
You said: "The Lord reveals Himself to whom He wills." Of this I have no doubt at all. However, I have known many "would-be" preachers of truth, who chose to serve additional truths to whom they chose. :( This is of course ridiculous to the extreme; however, their self conceit darkened their hearts and taught their own truth. :( (Actually it is laughable. :D)
Joe, when I said that the truth was in me from the beginning, I never said that I understood it as such, and for that matter who can say how much I understand now? :)
This was not my point. Having something and being knowledgeable about it two completely different things. I have access to the internet, but know and understand less than 0.000001% of what it contains I guess. ???
But this is what "coming" to the truth means in my mind. We are introduced to the Truth, sometimes gradually and sometimes with a jolt.
Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
I think the real question is: Did God write his truth in the hearts of his people or did he not? :)
I firmly believe that He did. :)
Luk 12:2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
However, did God grant understanding to everyone?
Well I think we can garner something out of the following Scripture:
Jhn 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].
Here we are told that God does indeed measure out his Spirit, but unto Christ, there is no limit.
Of Psalm 19, I believe it is speaking of present time. It appears that Paul drew from this Scripture when he wrote Romans 1:20 and carried on from that point in vs' 21 & 22.
Just my thoughts, if any others have anything to add to this, please do. :)
Your brother in Christ,
Darren
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: YellowStone on April 10, 2007, 11:16:35 AM ---Hi Joe,
Hello Darren,
(I will make a couple comments in green type)
You said: "The Lord reveals Himself to whom He wills." Of this I have no doubt at all. However, I have known many "would-be" preachers of truth, who chose to serve additional truths to whom they chose. :( This is of course ridiculous to the extreme; however, their self conceit darkened their hearts and taught their own truth. :( (Actually it is laughable. :D)
Joe, when I said that the truth was in me from the beginning, I never said that I understood it as such, and for that matter who can say how much I understand now? :)
This was not my point. Having something and being knowledgeable about it two completely different things. I have access to the internet, but know and understand less than 0.000001% of what it contains I guess. ???
But this is what "coming" to the truth means in my mind. We are introduced to the Truth, sometimes gradually and sometimes with a jolt.
Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
I think the real question is: Did God write his truth in the hearts of his people or did he not? :)
I firmly believe that He did. :)
This I certainly agree with, "write His Truth in the hearts of His people" but I was commenting on your earlier statement "Man seeks to make God available only to a few" which I replied that it was not man's call or even within man's power to decrease the availability of God.
Luk 12:2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
However, did God grant understanding to everyone?
Well I think we can garner something out of the following Scripture:
Jhn 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].
Here we are told that God does indeed measure out his Spirit, but unto Christ, there is no limit.
Of Psalm 19, I believe it is speaking of present time. It appears that Paul drew from this Scripture when he wrote Romans 1:20 and carried on from that point in vs' 21 & 22.
If you recall my statement I said "Primarily" not "Exclusively" since the majority will be saved in the next age I see this "nothing hid from the heat thereof " (verse 6) being very pertinant to the refining of all creation.
Darren, please read this (Psalm 19) again, can you see how this is true for His people His elect now (in their natural lives) but also true for ALL humanity in the next age?
Just my thoughts, if any others have anything to add to this, please do. :)
Your brother in Christ,
Darren
His Peace to you,
Joe
--- End quote ---
Hello again Darren,
Let me attempt to restate what I now believe you are saying;
God wrote His Word in the hearts of His chosen people in the very beginning, as He reveals Himself and He removes the scales from their eyes they begin to see what has been before them since their birth but never recognized due to a spiritual blindness.
When we begin the process of Christ living in us we see His Word and Truth as being familiar, like perhaps a long lost family member who we never knew before but immediately recognized once we were introduced, they looked and seemed familiar although we previously "knew them not."
Does this hit the mark of the point you are making?
His Peace to you Brother,
Joe
Pax Vobiscum:
I am so glad that you posted something to which I feel I have something to contribute because it lets me ask, "Is your nickname 'Mr. Snacks', or 'Mrs. Nacks?'" I am breathless with anticipation.....
New Truths and revelations from God are dicey subjects. How many other well-meaning seekers have been led down paths of... um... less-than-the-whole-Truth? They too felt as "led by the Spirit" as anyone here.
I feel an analogy coming on -- somebody stop me!
Consider Universal Truth as an incredible Universal Symphony with Scripture being the score (the written notes from which we play our part).
I can hand you the score to the most beautiful symphony ever written. You can study it, study about it, learn about the different techniques and elements that make up the piece; but until you hear it played well, you probably will not have a much fuller appreciation of the music (or its author, for that matter).
The love of music is borne of the playing and hearing of the music. Loving music does not require that you know about it or have a degree in music (but I believe it helps). It is the sound of music that draws us mystically to the orchestra (cue: Julie Andrews). A usual reaction is to sate one's hunger to know more about the music, its context, its nuances, its author, and how others have interpreted different passages. Others may just sit back and enjoy the fullness of the music without a care about those things. Either of these loves the music equally.
Some of us are conductors, copyists, clarinetists, violinists -- some of us even make complete bassoonists of ourselves from time-to-time(!) -- playing our part. Playing solo makes us feel incomplete. Wherever two or three gather, the harmonies bring excitement and joy. Join a fellowship of like-minded musicians and let the music play in full!
Practice, of course, makes perfection. Keeping our instrument well-tuned and oiled will keep our part strong and confident.
Study the score, but remember the score is not the music!!! (If you understand this, you will understand me better) The score is merely the means to communicate the music from author to person to person to person. Quoting measure #114 or comparing measure #1234 against measure #14 is not always edifying to the symphony (or the orchestra members). Only those who have studied and can play "expertly" should even attempt to do so.
So, "new" truth and "new" revelation.... Does it "fit" with the overall theme and style of the core melody? Is there a dissonance? Is it "playable (livable)?" If someone wants to play a phrase a certain way, can it be done without losing fellow players?
Music, especially in this analogy, is for everyone; but not everyone will "get" it. Some will find the symphony phony, others will hear nothing but the simplest melodies and forget them soon after music stops, and others still will experience and share the fullness of the author's intentions -- not being able to get the melody "out of their heads."
I am wary of "new" anything, but am open to different interpretations of a theme as long as the central melody remains intact. I feel that we too often lose sight of this.
Peace
American Federation of Musicians
Local 161-710
skydreamers:
Hey Pax, I thoroughly enjoyed your post! What a beautiful analogy. Very cool.
Peace,
Diana
YellowStone:
Joe,
Thanks for sharing your view regarding your understanding of what I am saying. Yes, you have worded it inline with my thoughts. Are they also yours?
I have read Psalm 19 over and over and I still see it's message for yesterday, today and tomorrow. (Is, was and will be)
Let me post the remainder of the Chapter and make notes regarding my understanding. :)
Psa 19:10 More to be desired [are they] than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
The truths that are to be found in all of creation (heavens, firmament, clouds) are in Davids mind (mine also) are more valuable than fine gold and sweeter to the heart than any other (wordly) word / doctrine. They are TRUTH. :)
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: [and] in keeping of them [there is] great reward.
The truths that are learned, should be well understood and kept always. The reward is life.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand [his] errors? cleanse thou me from secret [faults].
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous [sins]; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer
David knew well that he was still a servant of sin; however, he knew also that the truth he learned would keep sin from having dominion over him.
Is this chapter prophetic? I believe it is also talking of the time of Christ. I really believe that the repeated mention of sins and faults in vs's 11, 12, & 13 are referring to today.
Here is what Paul says of learning from creation and what happened to many.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.[/b]
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen
What do you think vs 24 is saying?
There is two parts to this.
1. even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, (vs 21)
2. God gave them up to uncleanness
Does "God gave them up to uncleanness " mean God gave them unclean desires, or does it mean instead, that: God allowed them to fall victims of their self wisdom, conceit, lusts, pride etc? The word 'up' would suggest that God figuratively let them walk through the door into the world of Satan.
Please know that I am not saying this was not God's plan.
Just my thoughts brother Joe,
Darren
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