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Who is my brother? NO REALLY
ciy:
Darren
I agree. You are saying what I was saying.
Arcturus,
please take no offense, but it was the tree of good and evil. God created evil for good. The evil in you is put there, so to speak by God, only God can purge it. Amazing how Jesus is the lamb, the serpent, and the lion and Satan is the wolf in sheep's clothing (lamb), the serpent, and the lion.
I love ya'll.
CIY
Deborah-Leigh:
Convoluted takes on a whole new meaning for me now! From experience I see what that word means now!
Jesus is the serpent! Give me a break!
YellowStone:
I agree Arcturus, I cannot make that connection either. :(
CIY, we are told that God created Christ first over all creation.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Just when he formed Satan is unknown; however, Christ and Satan are two VERY distinct enmities. Obviously you are seeing something differently, would you please care to explain.
Love in Christ to you,
Darren
Deborah-Leigh:
Darren
Only God is good. God does not dwell in evil. I stand by what I have said.
John 1 : 5 And the Light shines on in the darkness, for the darkness has never overpowered it, put it out or absorbed it or appropriated it, and is UNRECEPTIVE TO IT.
Peace be to those who do not put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
Lord have mercy on me.
Arcturus :)
ciy:
I realize that this post is apparently pushing some limit, I just do not want to leave it where it is. I am and have been a voracious reader of the bible for about 7 years and of Ray's teachings for 2 years. My original post was to encourage that it is through the spirit, not the carnal man, that we will attain to that mark set before us. Being saved at the end. Staying faithful to the end. It was not meant to be directed toward evil, but I stand behind everything I said and I want to make sure you can see it.
Below is what Ray said in LOF part C.
You know that I speak the truth, but many of you can’t handle the truth.
So am I saying that since God is the Creator of all, and Sustainer of all, and by Him all things Consist, and He already knows all that is and will be, and He works all things after the counsel of His Own will, that all of the crimes of the world are a part of God’s plan? No, that is not my teaching. But this is precisely what the Scriptures say! This is not some perverted theory. I read it in the Bible—in hundreds and hundreds of places!
I have no problem in justifying God in all of His doings, even though I personally am overwhelmed at times over the magnitude of pain and evil that God has subjected us to. It is humbling! It surely does produce God’s desired purpose, and I can personally attest to this fact. Inventing an unscriptural and anti-scriptural term like "human free will" or "free choice" does not remove the consequences of evil from God's shoulders.
Then skip down a few lines.
THE PURPOSE FOR WHICH GOD CREATED EVIL
This is all the strange work of God. There is no free will about it. We are all born out of a dark womb into the natural light of day, but this too is but a parable. We must be “born again” out of spiritual darkness of this age into the glorious light of the Sun of God. It is a painful journey, and requires an experience of evil to accomplish.
“And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail has God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith” (Ecclesiastes 1:13).
What a horrible translation! My King James has three superior numbers in this one verse indicating three different words in the margin. Especially the last phrase:
“…this sore travail has God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.”
What pray tell does that mean? One of the most all-encompassing and profound verses in all Scripture, and most translations butcher it beyond understanding.
NEW AMERICAN BIBLE: “A thankless task God has appointed for men to be busied about.”
JEWISH PUBLICATION SOCIETY: “…it is a sore task that God has given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.”
NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION: “What a heavy burden God has laid on men!”
YOUNG’S LITERAL TRANSLATION: “It is a sad travail God has given to the son of man to be humbled by it.”
This is really an important verse; we have got to get it right. Young’s Translation gets a little closer to the truth than the KJV or the previous three references. He got the humbled part right. But what is all this “sad travail,” “heavy burden,” “thankless task,” business all about? It is not that difficult if we will just look at the Hebrew words:
Ecc. 1:13 from the King James:
First, the word “this” may be better translated “it,” as some have done.
But far, far more important than all, the word “sore” should be translated “EVIL” as almost none have done. It is the Hebrew word ra which always means “EVIL,” and is translated as “evil” in hundreds and hundreds of other verses. Why not in this verse? The few times that ra is translated “sore” in the KJV, it ALWAYS means “evil” as in “evil sickness” or “evil troubles.”
The word “travail” in the KJV is not out of line with the Hebrew, but is nebulous and not easily understood by most. It would better translated as “employment” or “experience.”
And we have already seen from other versions that the KJV “exercised” is better translated “humbled” as Young’s and Concordant has done.
Here then is a proper translation of this most profound verse:
“It is an experience of evil Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it” (Concorant Old Testament).
Now we can easily understand what is being said in this verse.
This “experience of evil” is not the purpose or goal of human existence, but this is indeed the process by which God is bringing His Sons and Daughters into glory! Most translations have hidden the meaning of this verse of Scripture. The translations just couldn’t believe that God would do such a thing. They see it all around them. They see it in thousands of Scriptures, but they just couldn’t bring themselves to come right out and say it, as God obviously has stated in the original Hebrew of this verse.
“It is an EXPERIENCE of EVIL that God has given to the sons of humanity to HUMBLE them by it.”
And to this agrees the rest of Scripture:
“For ALL his days are SORROWS, and his travail [experience] GRIEF…” (Ecc. 2:23).
The destiny of the human race is indeed GLORIOUS, but the journey is filled with evil and sorrow. This not to say that there are not many beautiful and good things in life, but for most the misery far far outweighs the pleasurable.
I love the plan of God and this just shows some of His depths. It is a deep thing.
CIY
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