> General Discussions
Is the millenium to be taken literal ?
DWIGHT:
Hi Rocky,
No that is not what I'm saying. There will be linear progression, but we can apply all the scriptures to our lives today in the spirit because as Jesus is so are we. I hope this is clearer. Brother, if we just see the stories and the letters, we will miss all the wonderful lessons in the spirit. There is spirit behind every letter in the scriptures. We must live by every word that comes out of the mouth of God. If God is spirit, and He is, then we must see the spirit of the word. That's all I meant.
In Him,
Dwight
rocky:
thanks Dwight for clarifying.
But I do have a question, how can things progress linear, if Christ always will be?? In other words when the resurrection comes, one could say, there will be another, resurrecton, because "he will be". Or another example, this current age will go on infinitely, because "he Is".
Or after he has turned the kingdom over to the father, after subduing all enemies, will he always still be? How can he be the "end" (omega) if he always "will be".
Does that make sense? I don't see how we can apply "will be" to now.
The way I see it, is "he was" meaning a jew in the flesh, under old covenant. He died to the Old Cov. (died to the flesh).
But we no longer know him according to the flesh (he "is), our risen savior; our high priest, who intercedes for us. He is in the Holy of holies, and he will return.
But "he will be", the return of Christ, to comlete the consumation of the ages, as he returns to rule as King.
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Kat:
Hi Dwight and rocky,
Interesting discussion, I actually can see both of your sides on this.
I was thinking that Ray had this in one of his papers, so I looked it up, I think it will be a help :)
http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html --------------------------------
HIM WHICH IS, AND WHICH WAS, AND WHICH IS TO COME
When God wants to emphasis something, He repeats it. When He really wants to emphasize something, He repeats it again. When He really, really, really wants to emphasize something, He repeats it multiple times. Let’s count the times God uses this phrase:
"Him which IS, and which WAS, and which IS TO COME" Rev. 1:4).
"I AM alpha and Omega, the BEGINNING and the ENDING, which IS, and which WAS, and which IS TO COME" (Re. 1:08).
"I am Alpha and Omega, the FIRST and the LAST" (Rev. 1:11).
"I am the FIRST and the LAST" (Rev. 1:17).
"I am He that LIVES, and WAS DEAD; and, behold, I AM ALIVE" "Rev. 1:18).
"the FIRST and the LAST, which was DEAD, and is ALIVE" (Rev. 2:08).
"Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty, which WAS, and IS, and IS TO COME" (Rev. 4:08).
"Oh Lord God Almighty, which ART, and WAS, and ARE TO COME" (Rev. 11:17).
"Thou art righteous, O Lord, which ARE, and WAS, and SHALL BE" (Rev. 16:5).
"I am Alpha and Omega, the BEGINNING and the END"
Jesus Christ is the BEGINNING and the END; He IS, WAS, and WILL BE. The book of Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, therefore, the book of Revelation tells us what "IS [or ARE], WAS, and WILL BE." Everything spoken to the churches is, was, and will be. But not everything that "is, and was," "will be" eternally.
Virtually everything in the Bible pertains to the ages [Greek: aions]. All of these ages will come to and end, as will some things that are only used during eonian times or the times contained in the ages.
One of the prime examples of something that is only used during the ages, is JUDGMENT. When judgment brings about righteousness among all mankind, judgment will become a thing of the past, never to be used in the Kingdom of God again. No, something's "will be" NO MORE. Not until later in the book of Revelation are we told of NEW things to come and OLD things that "will be" no more.
Thank and praise God that one day the most dreaded and painful things in the universe will be NO MORE:
"And God shall wipe away ALL TEARS from their eyes [no, there will be NO ONE in a fabled Christian hellhole of terror with tears running down their fire-scorched face for all eternity]; and there shall be NO MORE DEATH [not a first death, nor a second death, nor a spiritual death, nor any ‘death’ whatsoever, ‘the last enemy being ABOLISHED is DEATH,’ (I Cor. 15:26)], neither SORROW, nor CRYING, neither shall there be a ANY MORE PAIN: for the former things ARE PASSED AWAY" (Rev. 21:4)!
How many times must this verse be quoted before we actually believe it?
"And He that sat upon the throne said, ‘BEHOLD! I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW" (Verse 5)!
These are truly the most profound promises by God Almighty in the entirety of Scripture!
Let’s try reading a few verses together with this spiritual understanding of what is "spiritual," and what still, "is, was, and will be":
"The [spiritual] Revelation [that is, was, and will be] of [spiritual] Jesus Christ [who is, was, and will be], which God gave unto Him, to show unto His [spiritual] servants [which are were and will be] [spiritual] things [which are, were, and will be] which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and [spiritually] signified [what is, was, and will be] by His [spiritual] angel [which is, was, and will be] unto His [spiritual] servant [which is, was, and will be] John.
Who bare [spiritual] record of [what is, was, and will be] of the [spiritual] word [which is, was, and will be] of [spiritual] God [who is, was, and will be], and of the [spiritual] testimony [which is, was, and will be] of [spiritual] Jesus Christ [Who lives, was dead, and am alive; Who is, was, and will be; the Alpha and the Omega; the beginning and the end; Who is, was, and is to come], and of all [spiritual] things [which are, were, and will be], that he [spiritually] saw [things that are, and were, and will be].
[Spiritually] Blessed is he [who is, was, and will be] that [spiritually] reads [what is, was, and will be], and they that [spiritually] hear [what is, was, and will be] the [spiritual] words of this [spiritual] prophecy [which is, was, and will be], and [spiritually] keep those things [which are, were, and will be] which are [spiritually] written therein: for the [spiritual] time [that is, was, and will be] is [spiritually] at hand" (Rev. 1:1-3).
If anyone thinks this is funny, he is laughing at God, not at me. Once one thoroughly understands this spiritual truth of what is, was, and will be, it is not necessary to read the entire Book in the way I have stated it above. However, that is the truth of how this book must be understood.
But we read of no "Third Death." There is NO THIRD DEATH. Adam is called "the first man." Jesus is called "the second man." Therefore the "Second Death" is the culmination of ALL DEATH, seeing that
"The last enemy being abolished is DEATH," (I Cor. 15:26)
and,
"…there shall be NO MORE DEATH" (Rev. 21:5).
When we come to our study on Gehenna, hell, hades, unextinguishable fire, the furnace of fire, lake of fire, death, second death, etc., we will go into great detail explaining these things from the Scriptures. No Scripture on any of these subjects will be a problem for your understanding ever again.
And thus we, today, members of the Church of God of the Twenty-First Century, are to "…hear what the spirit says [not what the ‘spirit said,’ past tense only, as this is in the Greek aorist tense and is still ‘saying’ these same things to every generation] unto the churches."
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat
DWIGHT:
Thanks Kat,
I remember that paper from Ray now that you brought it out. The words that I speak unto you are spirit....this has such a deep meaning that it has become a veil to billions of people. Just like the children of Israel could not look on the face of Moses, so now people (I mean Christians) can not see the spirit of the Word; they can only see the letter, and we know that the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life. Beginning with Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21, every word, letter, number and name IS spirit, and if we will begin to see that, it will change our life. I believe that we here on this forum, are begining to see, because I see each brother and sister growing everyday. I've never seen such hunger and thrist for righteousness as I have here. Not that we are doing it, but it is God in us creating this hunger and thirst. Praise His name!
In Him,
Dwight
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