> General Discussions
re Hell
andrevan:
The fact of the matter is that whatever words (hades/gehenna) Jesus used in whatever language (Greek/Aramaic) He spoke, He most certainly was not referring to a future time and place where He would insanely torture and literally burn human beings in real fire for trillions of years into infinity!
What does it matter what "words" He would have used?? It doesn't change the one final destiny of the entire human race.
Andrevan.
CDJ:
Here's how I see it...
There's 2 ways to see it 1) Eternal Punishment 2) Chastisement for a defined period
Between those 2 is a big difference, and we need to weigh up which one it is, because there can be only 1 Truth. I've been brought up with the notion of eternal damnation, and what that basically means, is that once we die, it's all over - good people go to heaven and bad ones go to hell - both of these forever.
With the 1st way to see it, is when people start accusing God of contradiction - How can Jesus say "Love your enemies", when they're going to burn in hell anyway - why don't we just hate them now? How can a God of Love do these things? Well, I believe it's us. We are guilty of accepting the 1st way to see it - I'm sorry, but I feel that Christians just want blood, confusion and vigilante justice.
I spoke to a Jewish friend of mine, and in the conversation, I asked him a question. Most around the table was Christian believing in the eternal hell. I asked him, seeing as the 2 faiths are linked, that he should explain to everyone around the table about this eternal hell, according to the Jews. He couldn't. I didn't ask him a trick question, as we are all very good friends, but I wanted to hear a Jew explain to me this eternal hell. He said it's not the way he was taught.
If you see hell as eternal, why do we get statements like these in Bibles "...forever and ever..."? Why do some translate it as "...the age of the age...". Why didn't some Apostels even talk about it? Another thing - we always talk about action and reaction. Throwing people in hell is an action. What is the reaction? Well, people "burn". What is the reaction on that? Well, more "burning". And on that? Well, again more "burning". People are put in heaven - action. What is the reaction? Well, green grass with feet in water. And this reaction? Well, green grass with feet in water. And on that? Well, more green grass with feet in water. Now, God's consuming fire is the action. What is the reaction? Purifying. Cleansing. There's a result.
Once you start asking yourself, that maybe this "eternal"-thing has been translated wrong, and you start seeing that the Bible talks actually about ages, the Scriptures start falling into place like never before. That is why there is so much confusion inside Christianity, because learned folk study for years and years to try and make sense of the words which they cannot understand. That's why Christians almost shy away of things like these, because it's left to the learned, who in their turn confuse people even more. Take all the sermons of hell in the world, and matc it up to Scriptures, and if the NT really spoke about an eternal hell, at least one of those sermons has to tie up with a section in Scriptures - they don't, because each sermon is either based around Luke 16:19-31, or on human assumption.
If you believe in an eternal hell, one could say that those people are questioning God's sovereignity, because if Jesus only had to come to keep people out of hell, it actually says that Satan got the better of God, in making God do something to "fix" things. Creation didn't spiral out of control - God is in control, now, yesterday and tomorrow...
chav:
Hi all
I'm rather surprised at your response to my question which was genuine incidentlly I was only trying seek a clearer understanding for myself. Some of you have got the wrong end of the stick.I'm afraid.
Dave UK
Falconn003:
Dave
Fact is Jesus the Christ never did spoke of hell in any language. And how dose one know this, FACT ::: there was NOT a word in the Greek and Hebrew text equivalent to the word hell and the ideals it holds.
Jesus made refrences to Gehenna, this is not in references to hell, but something spiritually symbolic.
Equating Gehenna or any other Greek or Hebrew text to hell, would be like equalizing whales too fish,, God's truth too TBN,, humans too apes,, Brillance too a crimminal act,, Heroism too a coward,, anything of importance too the Queen of England......etc
Rodger
andrevan:
--- Quote from: chav on April 15, 2007, 06:40:58 PM ---hi all
I need some clarification regarding the words used by Jesus when he talked about Hell. I know he preceded the Anglo Saxon word Hell. But as the NT scriptures are in Greek, presumably he never used the word Hades either,although that area was pretty well Hellenized at that time following the invasion of Alexander the Great .Speaking in his native tongue Aramaic what words would he have used .
thanks
Dave UK
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Hi all
I'm rather surprised at your response to my question which was genuine incidentlly I was only trying seek a clearer understanding for myself. Some of you have got the wrong end of the stick.I'm afraid.
Dave UK
--- End quote ---
Hi Dave :)
I apologise if I did not respond the way you expected. Ray has spend hundreds of hours explaining these things regarding what Jesus said and in what language, Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek it was said. All we have are the Greek (NT) manuscripts, this is what God has given us. How can anyone know for sure what language Jesus spoke? If you have congruent evidence as to what language(s) He spoke to His disciples and the people then present it.
I just don't see the point of this topic, as Ray has covered this already in his material, other than to quibble over words and to speculate.
Ray has given us the clarification on the word 'hell', and is continuing to do so in detail.
God's peace to you :).
Andrevan.
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