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Author Topic: Hell is Real  (Read 5122 times)

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Hell is Real
« on: April 21, 2007, 06:34:56 AM »

    Dear RAY,
    2 Corinthians 4:18 "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal [Aeonian]".
    If we use your theory, that aion means an "age", then this verse can say "what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is also temporary"?!?!?
    You better check this out and repent.
    Repent soon,

    Dear Jacob:

    Oh REALLY?  Maybe it is YOU who needs to repent? One verse, huh?

    I had a wanna-be theologian once challenge me on this same verse. Of course he didn't have anymore of a clue as to the meaning of this verse than you do. Here is my comment to his unscriptural heresy. All my statements start with "COMMENT:....." and are in blue print:

    [2 Cor 4:18]:

    "Since we consider and look not to the things that are seen [temporal - temporary] but to things that are unseen [spiritual - eternal]; for the things that are visible are temporal (brief and fleeting), but the things that are invisible are deathless and everlasting

    Comment: The concept of "eternity" is foreign to the Holy Scriptures. There is virtually nothing that is outside of the time periods known as aions. There are just a couple of hints regarding life beyond the ages of time. Luke speaks of things pertaining to the Kingdom, not coming to an end. And Paul tells us that in resurrection we will have "incorruption" and "immortality" signifying "deathlessness," but neither word has to do with time itself. Paul also speaks of a time in which God will be "ALL in all." That is the extent to which the Scriptures even hint of eternity or anything beyond the ages of time.

    II Cor. 4:18 is neither speaking of "deathless" or "everlasting," as you suggest. It is speaking of what is happening now, in our life of flesh, and what will happen during the ages of our reign with Christ in the kingdom of God. The things of this life, we SEE daily. The things pertaining to the Kingdom of God are as yet "NOT seen." Again, it is not even speaking of what is "visible" and "Invisible," but rather what is NOW SEEN as compared with things "eonian" and NOT YET SEEN, which when seen will not be temporary, but will last through whole eons of time. And all that is perfected through the Kingdom of God and the reign of Christ bringing all enemies into subjection, will last on PAST the eons, and will have NO END.

    The next great event in prophecy is not eternity, but rather the END of this eon and the BEGINNING of the next—the one in which the very elect will reign with Christ. There is no sense in jumping into eternity when as yet, we have numerous ages to yet live and administer God’s government and His Great Judgment. And so, what is not yet seen, is "eonian" (pertaining to the eons), and not "eternity" as you and the King James suggests in this verse.

    ..............................................................[Grk] "aionios"

    Here in this passage the contrast is between the temporal and the eternal

    Comment: No, it is contrasting what is "seen" now and what is "not seen," now, but is yet future.

        -          the material and the spiritual.

    Comment: No, strictly speaking it is not contrasting material with spiritual, but rather what is perceived in this temporary life and what is ahead as our reward in the Kingdom.

    Surely the Greek word "aionios" could not be translated to mean "age" which would force the passage to provide a meaning of comparing the difference between spiritual things which then, because of the mistranslation of "aionios", portray spiritual things lasting just for a finite age as opposed to temporal things which do not last for an age.

    Comment: You are arguing from a false premise. Plus you misrepresent aionios on both ends of the spectrum. From your point of view, you want to extend what pertains to the ages into ETERNITY. And from the perspective of the Truth, that is what the word actually means, you are trying to limit it to ONE SINGLE AGE. Neither is true. Aionios is the adjective of the noun aion, and as such it must mean "that which pertains to ages." It could be one or many ages, just as the adjective "hourly" pertains to hours. It could be pertaining to only one, but it could also be pertaining to very many hours. But it must pertain to hours, and not weeks, months, or centuries!

    We know that spiritual things prove out to last longer. Furthermore, this meaning makes no sense in the context which Paul is establishing which is a permanence of spiritual things over the temporary nature of the material world.

    Comment: No, Paul is not speaking of spiritual things over the material world. Notice the previous verse:

            "For our light affliction, which is but for a moment [this is temporary, and this is what Paul tells us we are NOW OBSERVING], works for us a far more exceeding and AIONIOS weight of glory."

    Paul is contrasting the [1] ‘light affliction’ with [2] and ‘exceeding weight of glory.’ This cannot be denied, for I have just merely numbered the two contrasting points he is making. Now then, we know that the ‘light affliction’ is as he says ‘momentary’—it is SEEN, it is NOW, and it is TEMPORARY. But, he tells us that this NOW SEEN TEMPORARY affliction will bring us an EXCEEDING WEIGHT OF GLORY. WHEN? Why IN THE RESURRECTION, of course, the first resurrection, when we will be GLORIFIED WITH CHRIST and… and what?  Why we are to be "kings and priests" with our Lord. When?  All through ETERNITY?  NO, during the "oncoming ages." These verses are speaking of the trials we now see and are enduring for a temporary moment, contrasted with the glory that will be ours IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD on this earth ruling and reign with Christ THROUGH THE AGES, not for eternity. Not even Christ rules as "King" for eternity.

    Therefore the Greek word "aionios" must mean eternal or everlasting.

    Comment: Nonsense, it means eonians—pertaining to the oncoming AGES. Our glorious reign with Christ on the earth over the nations is for the AGES, not for eternity. The reign of Christ COMES TO AND END, just as aionios comes to an end (I Cor 15:25-26).

    Maybe you would like to read the whole paper from which this was excerpted. It is found on our home page:   "Is EVERLASTING Scriptural?"

    God be with you,

« Last Edit: April 21, 2007, 11:31:23 AM by Kat »
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