No Idea where this goes

[seminole]

I had no idea how you post in a new area so I don't know if this is correct or not. I had a question I intended to ask earlier but got sidetracked. In reading this forum I had noticed that  the word "Babylon" was used quite often. I understand that the tower of Babel in the Old Testament is what the area was called but it seems like something more or different in some of the posts I have read. I am no Bible scholar so bear with my ignorance if that is what it turns out to be. The people of that day were building a tower to reach to heaven which was pompous enough so God "confused" their speech to bring them down a notch. If that is correct it's good to go. What I don't understand is the word "Babylon" used in the forum. I want to ask instead of assuming.
Seminole

[gmik]

I seem to be following you around but we are both online at the same time.

We use "Babylon" to mean the world, the "church", Christendom, anything from where we "left"-out there, the old way of thinking and believing.

You will see that I am not one of the ones who know how to put a lot of scripture w/ my comments, so I hope someone who is wiser than me can help you out and use scripture for you.

Anyhow, that is what I always take it to mean.

[Kent]

To me, it describes the arrogance of man to believe he can thwart Gods' will by working his own way up to Heaven.

It's believing that if ones does X, Y, and Z, then God is honor bound to do that persons will. (the "seed" doctrine so popular with people these days). It's a system that mixes paganism with Christ's teachings.

JMO, I am sure someone wiser will come along soon

[Firefly]

Hi Seminole...Here is Revelation 18...this is kind of what I think of when I see the word Babylon on the forum. I am a Newbie so this is my very, very, very limited understanding. Kent...I really like what you said..

Lori 

Revelation 18
1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

7How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

22And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

23And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

[Kat]

Hi seminole,

I will bring up a couple of things from Ray about Babylon.  The first is an excerpt from an email and the second is an excerpt from a paper in the Lake of Fire series.  I put the link on it so you can go to it and read the whole paper, that has a lot about Babylon in it.

http://bible-truths.com/emails.html#Islamic -------------------------------

Judaism is a totally corrupted version of the religion of the Old Testament Israelites. The Jews, likewise, as a nation, as a race, and as a religion, TOTALLY reject Jesus Christ as their Saviour. Jesus will, likewise, reject them. Not eternally, but in their first life.

Now then, Pastor, we have a far larger and far greater and far more evil religion extent in the world today that either Islam or Judaism. Gee, who could they be?

"And the woman [a woman is used symbolically to represent a church in Scripture] was clothed with purple and scarlet, and gilded with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, brimming with ABOMINATIONS and the UNCLEANNESS of the PROSTITUTION of her and the earth. And on her forehead is written a name:

"Secret Babylon the Great the mother of prostitutes
and the abominations of the earth" (Rev. 17:4-5).


http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html ------------------------------

Babylon, the greatest kingdom of nations in the history of the world is COMING DOWN TO THE GRAVE! Just like Capernaum, Babylon was EXALTED TO HEAVEN, but is being brought down to HELL (the grave of death and destruction). And theologians and translators would try to deceive us into believing that all this is a statement about "How art thou fallen from heaven, O lucifer [firefly]." Does everything spoken of in these two chapters sound like it refers to some chubby cherub (named firefly) who lost his chubby wings when he got kicked out of heaven?

What is actually spoken of in these two chapters of Isaiah 13 & 14 is the history of world religion and government from the creation of man, through the destruction of man, and the realization of God's spiritual Mt. Zion filling the universe. All the religions and governments of the world in the history of the world are personified in these two chapters. Isa. 13:1 begins with, "The burden of Babylon..." (organized religion and government against God), and ends with Isa. 14;32b, "That the Lord has founded Zion..." (The spiritual capital of the Universe governing all mankind). It's all right here for those who have "ears to hear and eyes to see."

Let me give you the history of the world including all future prophecies, in one sentence:

God perfectly planned and recorded His creation of the heavens, angels, the earth, and carnal humanity, who sinned wickedly and were all drowned (save a few); who then reached for their own heaven at the tower of Babel in rebellion to the God Who then scattered them (save a few); who later built Babylon into a great pagan empire which God destroyed (save a few); who have since built many wicked and fornicating Babylons collectively called, Mystery Babylon The Great, whom God warns before utterly destroying again (save a few); and of 'the Few' God is creating a New Spiritual Humanity of Son-and-Daughter Saviours like unto Jesus, in New Jerusalem on spiritual Mt. Zion, were ALL will be redeemed (NOT just a few); that God may be "ALL in All"!
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[skydreamers]

Here are some segments of Ray's writings on Babylon:

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"

This church system is the apex, the zenith, the epitome of ALL THAT IS DECEITFUL, AND WICKED!

IT ALL BEGAN AT BABEL

This world's counterfeit religious and political systems began at BABEL (Babylon).

    "And the whole earth was of one language ... they found a plain in the land of Shinar [Iraq--Babylon] ... And they said, Go to, let us build us a CITY and a tower ... and let us make us a NAME, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the WHOLE EARTH ... And the Lord came down to see the city ... Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language ... So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the FACE OF ALL THE EARTHY..." (Gen. 11:1-9).

God confounded their languages and He scattered them over the face of all the earth, but they took their rebellious, self-centered, godless religion and government WITH THEM.

Have we forgotten how that later mankind once again regrouped under one central government? There was a time in ancient history when officials gather the educated and scholars from around the world, and once again shared philosophies, religions, laws, sciences, and other academia at a central location which they would then once more take back to their respective countries and share, worldwide? And what was that great nation called? That's right, BABYLON! But that great Gold-Headed Kingdom also came crashing down under the Medes and the Persians. Well guess what? Babylon is rising once more. This time God calls it:

    "MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS, AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Rev. 17:5).

Notice that this Great Whore is a "mother of harlots." She is a mother who has harlots for daughters. This is the very same thing that we read in Ezekiel 16: 48,

    "As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister has not done, she nor her daughters, as you [Jerusalem] has done, YOU [Jerusalem—a MOTHER] and your DAUGHTERS."

Any woman who has "daughters" is of necessity, a "mother."

Now for a real shocker! From where does God call HIS people? The answer shocked me.

    "BABYLON THE GREAT is fallen, is fallen... For ALL NATIONS have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication ... And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come OUT of her, MY PEOPLE that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:2-4)!

Wow! Can you believe it? God calls HIS PEOPLE, HIS SAINTS, HIS ELECT, HIS CHURCH, OUT OF "MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS, AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"!! That's where the Apostles came from, that's where Paul came from, that's where the small persecuted church down through the ages came from, that where every believer I know came from, and that's where I came from. I, in fact, followed and obeyed several of her harlots in the process of coming out of Babylon. I was no better than the worst of sinners. It is only by God's grace that we are able to escape this system. And God will continue to call His elect out of that very system until He destroys it in His presence.

So clearly, the Mother Whore Jerusalem has HARLOT DAUGHTERS! And of the great religious system spoken of in Revelation 17 we also clearly see that MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, is a Mother Whore of Harlot Daughters! One has to be spiritually blind as a bat to not see that when we compare "Spiritual with spiritual," these two are a "spiritual MATCH!" More proof:

The one True Church of the Living God has a "Father" and a "Mediator—Jesus Christ." But does God's Church have a "Mother?" Ah, Yes, it surely does:

    "For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory [a representation of abstract ideas or principles by characters] for these are the TWO COVENANTS; the one from the mount Sinai, which genders to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar IS [now a metaphor—'is like, in certain ways'] mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to JERUSALEM which NOW IS [at the time Paul wrote this and continues to this day] and is in BONDAGE with her children. But Jerusalem which is ABOVE ["The HEAVENLY JERUSALEM" Heb. 12:22] is free, which is THE MOTHER OF US ALL" (Gal. 4:22-26).

What amazing Scriptures these are. The New Covenant Church of the Living God has a MOTHER—HEAVENLY JERUSALEM ABOVE. And the giant Old Covenant Whore Church also has a mother—EARTHLY JERUSALEM BELOW. The New is FREE, whereas the Old is in BONDAGE. But how can I say that the Old Covenant Church is "huge?" Aren't there only a relatively few orthodox Jews around the world who keep the "Old" Covenant? No, there are BILLIONS of people who keep the "Old" Covenant around the world. There are almost no Christians that understand and keep the "New" Covenant. To the world of Christendom, the Old Covenant IS THE NEW COVENANT! The New Covenant is merely keeping the Old Covenant, BETTER! That's right. To most, the New Covenant consists of keeping the Old Covenant, better. They say that they now keep the Old Covenant "in the spirit." Just how, pray tell, does one keep the "physical" in the "spirit?"

Such a doctrine is utter unscriptural contradictory nonsense. You cannot keep the "physical" in the "spirit." THERE IS NO SPIRIT IN THE PHYSICAL, SO HOW COULD ONE 'KEEP IT' IF IT DOESN'T EXIST? We are all born with a physical [carnal] mind. It is possible to keep physical [carnal] laws with a physical carnal mind (Paul did it to near perfection when he was Saul!). But one CANNOT keep God's spiritual laws with a physical carnal mind!

    "Because the carnal [natural physical] mind is enmity [deep seated HATRED] AGAINST God; for it is NOT subject to the [spiritual] law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:7).

    "For to be carnally minded is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace" (Rom. 8:6).

Let's be sure that we are perfectly clear on these Scriptural facts:

Paul said that there ARE RIGHT NOW, TWO Jerusalem's in existence.

One answers to the New Covenant, which is HEAVENLY JERUSALEM ABOVE.

One answers to the Old Covenant, which is EARTHLY JERUSALEM IN ISRAEL.

If you think that you can spiritually keep the physical laws of Moses, then your mother is the Old Covenant which answers to "Jerusalem which now is—IN BONDAGE."

But if you are keeping God's spiritual laws through the spirit of God, then your mother is "Heavenly Jerusalem ABOVE which is—FREE."

Of course the fact that Jerusalem is TWICE as wicked and abominable as Sodom does not in any way justify the sins of Sodom. No, God will deal with both Jerusalem and Sodom. And that is the whole point of this discussion. So even though the sins of Jerusalem are twice as abominable as the sins of Sodom, God will, nonetheless, SAVE JERUSALEM! And just when will God save Jerusalem? AT THE SAME TIME THAT HE SAVES SODOM. Yes, Sodom WILL BE SAVED, and she will be saved at the same time that doubly corrupt and abominable Jerusalem will be saved. Now least anyone think that I harbor ill feelings toward Jerusalem for writing these things, let me make it abundantly clear where these things came from. It is GOD, and not I, Who calls Jerusalem, Sodom and Egypt, and not only historically, but prophetically as well.

    "When your sisters, SODOM and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then THOU [JERUSALEM] and thy daughters shall return to YOUR former estate" (Verse 50).

    "Then you shall remember your ways, and be ashamed, when you shall receive your sisters, your elder [Samaria] and your younger [SODOM]: and I will give them [Samaria and Sodom] unto you for daughters, but not by your covenant. And I will establish my covenant with you; and you shall KNOW [for the first time] that I am the Lord: That you may remember, and be confounded, and never open your mouth any more because of your shame, when I am PACIFIED [make atonement, to pardon, to placate, to cover, to condone] TOWARD THEE [Jerusalem AND her sisters, Samaria and Sodom] for all that you have done, saith the Lord God" (Verses 61-63).

When God purges the hearts and minds of the wicked with His all-consuming spiritual fire, they will be UTTERLY ASHAMED! Notice what God says in Revelation 14:10 regarding anyone who is a part of this one world religious system:

    "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God [seeing that "For ALL nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of HER fornication..." Rev. 18:3], which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented [UTTERLY ASHAMED—spiritual and mental torment] with the fire and brimstone [God DIVINE spiritual fire] in the presence of the holy angels, and in THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB" (Rev. 14:10).

They are going to have to face their sins and wickedness and hypocrisy, NOT in the presence of GOD ALMIGHTY, but in the presence of "the LAMB!" How embarrassing and shameful it will be for all those being purged in the God's spiritual consuming lake of fire to see and acknowledge their whole life of sin in the very presence of the Lamb of God Who DIED FOR THEM! Every heart in the universe will melt like snow in a furnace when they face the LAMB OF GOD in their judgment!

So, is Sodom right now suffering in some fabled hell fires? NO. Is Jerusalem of old right now suffering in some fabled hell fires? NO. Will Sodom and Jerusalem be saved TOGETHER? YES, in the second resurrection, at the white throne judgment, in the lake of fire. The lake of divine spiritual fire will bring salvation to ALL THE NATIONS! "...but he himself [whomever of the billions of people purged in God's spiritual fire] shall be SAVED; yet so as BY [God's spiritual consuming] FIRE"! (I Cor. 3:15).

Remember that there are two administrations of God's purging fire: The first is on the House of God consisting of those whom God is calling to be overcomers and sons of God. The second will be at the second resurrection and white throne judgment in the lake of God's divine purging fire. All the children of the bondwoman, the Old Covenant, the Mother Whore with her harlot daughters, will one day be the children of Heavenly Jerusalem Above, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL!

God truly is NOT A RESPECTER OF PERSONS. GOD IS ABLE TO BRING ANY PERSON TO REPENTANCE. How could anyone deny it? There is no such thing as a person being so evil that he cannot be converted by the spirit of God. But God has a timetable, and He will follow that timetable. There is great wisdom in what God does and how He does it and when He does it and to whom He does.

If you have never experienced COMING OUT of Babylon the Great, then maybe you are being called to respond to God's plea: "Come OUT of her MY PEOPLE." It is a great and wonderful thing to be called by God at this time to be prepared as the very SONS OF THE LIVING GOD to bring salvation to the rest of the world and the entirety of the universe!

http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html

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But of the "many called," we are told, "few are chosen" (Matt. 20:16). Why is that? God has intended it to be such. We are given the parable of the "sower of seed" where much of the seed fell by the side of the tilled soil, and the birds ate it; some had no depth and withered in the sun; still more fell among thorns and were chocked, but some fell upon good soil and produced much fruit. Many seed are sown, but few seed produce good fruit. "Seed" we see everywhere in the Church; "fruit" of God's spirit is more rare. These few have the added designation of:

    "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).

These are the "very elect" who cannot be deceived any longer by the Great Whore, "Mystery Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots, and the Abominations of the earth."
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Paul knew that much of his labor in the gospel would fail to bring most of the saints to spiritual maturity. Paul came out of the Great Whore Church, the Mother Church of Judaism. Paul knew that the Church of Jesus Christ would likewise become corrupted and commit spiritual fornication with the world. And so, just as Paul came out of religious Babylon, everyone reared in the daughter harlot churches, must likewise, "Come out of her My people."
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THE CHURCH AFTER PAUL'S DEPARTURE

While in Miletus, before going to Caesarea and then up to Jerusalem, Paul gave us a profound prophetic statement regarding the direction the church would take immediately after his departure:

    "For I have not shunned to declare unto you ALL THE COUNSEL OF GOD. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to ALL THE FLOCK [the entire Church of God, and remember that ALL of Paul's epistles were read and distributed by Peter as well to the Jewish saints, II Pet. 3:16-17], over the which the Holy Ghost has made you overseers, to feed THE CHURCH OF GOD, which He has purchased with His own blood. FOR I KNOW THIS, that after my departing shall GRIEVOUS WOLVES enter in among you, NOT SPARING THE FLOCK. Also of your OWN SELVES shall men arise, speaking PERVERSE THINGS, to DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES AFTER THEM. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day WITH TEARS [Paul knew and could see how horribly deceived the Church of God was to become]. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified" (Acts 20:27-32).

WOW ... Not a pretty picture, is it? It gets worse.

Paul knew that just as he had to come out of religious Babylon, those under his evangelism would also have to one day come out of the New Testament Church of God's Babylonian practices. In our next installment we will see just what these practices and doctrines of the Seven Churches are, that we must "Come out of..."

Peter witnessed and prophesied of the same conditions in the Church. Listen to Peter's powerful words of admonition in his last epistle for us:

    "But there were false prophets [teachers] also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers AMONG YOU, who privately shall bring in DAMNABLE HERESIES, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And MANY shall follow their pernicious [lascivious, licentious, wanton] ways; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be EVIL spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words MAKE MERCHANDISE OF YOU..." (II Pet. 2:1-3).

Paul again parrots Peter's warning in his last words to Timothy in the very last epistle he wrote for us:

    "But evil men and seducers [in the church] shall wax WORSE AND WORSE, DECEIVING, AND BEING DECEIVED" (II Tim. 3:13).

So Paul didn't say that the horrible things already in the Church would get better and better, did he? No, he said they would get "worse AND WORSE!" Corrupt spiritual leaders produce even MORE corrupt leaders as well as followers. Didn't our Lord Prophecy of this very thing:

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte [convert], and when he is made, ye make him twofold MORE the child of hell [Gk: 'hades' the realm of the 'dead,' which Jesus here uses to represent the 'spiritually dead'] than yourselves" (Matt. 23:15).

We shall now see that Jesus, Peter, and Paul certainly did tell the truth that things in the church would get WORSE AND MORE WORSE, or as some translations have it, "from bad to worse." Peter says there would be false teachers that would bring in DAMNABLE HERESIES. ARE THERE DAMNABLE HERESIES IN THE CHURCH OF GOD? Or did Peter LIE? Paul tells us that evil men and seducers (Gk: wicked men and swindlers) would go from BAD TO WORSE! Did Paul LIE? Notice how bad Jesus Christ said things would become:

    "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, [a prophet is also a teacher and prophesying is teaching], and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive THE VERY ELECT" (Matt. 24:24).

http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html

So here then is the order of things. The Prodigal Son SINNED, he was LOST, he spiritually DIED, and then? And then he was JUDGED! Where and when was he judged? In the hog pens of a far alien country, that's where. God had to bring him out of this alien county (Mystery Babylon the Great) with all its "riotous living" (Luke 15:13). And so it was that God JUDGED this Prodigal with the beasts and swine of Babylon until he "came to himself." (Ver. 17). Seems to me that God sent King Nebuchadnezzer into the fields with the beasts to live like a beast, so that he too "came to himself." God has not warned in vain to

    "Come out of her [MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH] my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 17:5 & 18:4).

Him that has an ear, let him hear.

And so this Prodigal SINNED, was LOST, and spiritually DIED. Surely he is outside of the realm of salvation now. No, he is in the perfect realm FOR SALVATION. How many millions of times this parable of the Prodigal Son has been read, but how many times has its truth ever been understood and perceived? This prodigal was, according to his father, "DEAD." And it was after his father said that he was "dead" that he welcomed him back, forgave him, exalted him, and rewarded him! Now who says one can't be saved after death. It is after death that most of humanity will be saved.

May God finally grant you to SEE SOMETHING SPIRITUAL! Parables are NOT literal, that's why they are called "parables" instead of "history." This parable pictures the carnal mind going the way of the flesh. What are the wages of living a riotous life in the alien land of lustful Babylon? Is it "life and joy in the holy spirit?" I speak as fool. Here is the wages of riotous and carnal living in the hog pens of Babylon: "For the wages of sin is DEATH..." (Rom. 6:23). SPIRITUAL DEATH! What must happen AFTER we spiritually DIE? "JUDGMENT!" The spiritual DEAD must be JUDGED. Does judging CORRECT the spiritually dead sinners? Yes it does. That is what the parable of the Prodigal Son is all about. God's "ways and means" ALWAYS WORK!

    "...For when Thy [God's] JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!

http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html
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Hope that helps!
Peace,
Diana

[gmik]

Thank you Kat & Diana for compiling the scriptures & Ray's teaching.

Yes, I had read them before, but...  You do us all a great service when you bring them into forum discussions.  What a blessing!

Wonderful nuggets at the banquet table!

[seminole]

Thanks to you all for the info. It is a little too deep for me I am afraid but I appreciate the effort
Seminole

[Kent]

Dont give up.

You'll get it, when the time is right. Just pray and meditate on it.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Seminole

LOF Part 7 Quote

Understanding comes only from the Spirit.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Deborah-Leigh]

I agree with you G. and Kent.

....thank you Kat and Diana for the excerpts!

Peace to you

Arcturus