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Two resurrections; when do they take place?
skydreamers:
Hi Jason,
Oh yes, we can all well relate to how much undoing of Babylon we all need in our lives! If questions are stirring in your mind, this is likely God spurring you to study and seek Him out. It's ALL good!
--- Quote ---Although, I still have questions. Do we know for sure that those that were raised at Christ's resurrection weren't raised incorruptible?
--- End quote ---
Your question caused me to review this passage of scripture:
Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?"
1Co 15:49-55
There may be some clues in this passage that can help us understand WHEN we become incorruptible.
"...we shall ALL be changed...at the last trumpet" When is the last trumpet? I'm not exactly sure, but at the very least it seems it hasn't happened yet.
I had always thought the last trumpet IS the resurrection, when Jesus returns:
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:16
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Mat 24:31
Either way, since the last trumpet has not occurred, those who were raised thus far in any resurrection, would not have been raised incorruptible. It looks like they would have been raised back into physical "dying" bodies....and all of them would have died by now and are sleeping the sleep of death.
Now, twice in this passage it says, that at the time of the resurrection, "we shall ALL be changed...." Then it says, "for the dead will be raised imperishable..." is this all the dead or just the elect dead? I suppose it could be argued that Paul is speaking to the brethern (the elect) but I'm not sure that it is clarified here in this passage. We know that the elect are raised to eternal (aionious) life, which seems to me clarifies what kind of life they are raised to...it seems to me aionious life is referring to the life of honor, ruling as priests and kings alongside Jesus; the age of ruling the nations with a rod of iron (the spiritual millennium age).
Now, the rest of humanity are also raised to "life", but a different kind of life. Their life will initially consist of a life of judgment (just as the elect experienced before them). Once the judgment is complete, and the spiritual death to the carnal mind is experienced, then Jesus gives back the Kingdom to the Father, and God will be all in all.
So in that sense, once the "perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality" there will be no more death of "life". Whether that means the non-elect will have physical bodies that will eventually be changed, I don't know. It seems to me from this passage that it is at the time of the resurrection that the "change" occurs for everyone. Does anyone else have thoughts on this? I suppose you may "need" the physical body to learn how to overcome such things as the "lust" of the flesh. But then again, these things are really spiritual. It is not your body parts themselves that are sinning, but it is the "heart" of man that is desperately wicked....it is in the heart (not a pumping organ) where sin plays itself out. So then, what need is there of a physical body?? Things that make you go hmmm......
However, the last part of this passage raises more questions,"O death, where is your sting?"
because the next verse is:
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin comes from the Law.
1Co 15:56
Here's where I'm caused again to wonder.....this must be after "sin is no more"....and how can this be when the nations (the non-elect) must still be purged and cleansed, that is, they are still struggling and learning to overcome sin....because "death is swallowed up in victory" only after "the perishable puts on the imperishable"....
Hey Kat, do you know if Ray writes about this?? I haven't been able to find it so far.
Anyways Jason, I hope you might be closer to your answer about those raised at Christ's resurrection. Those were possibly yet another "physical" type of the spiritual which is yet to come.
May God shine His light of wisdom on all of us,
Peace to you brothers and sisters,
Diana
Evan600:
Great post Diana!
Lord willing, we will understand these truths.
God bless,
Jason
rocky:
i've been thinking more on this today, and thank you all for your feedback.
There is only ONE resurrection, and that is Jesus Christ. He came in the flesh, a jew, under law; died to the flesh and rose again (resurrected) and declared Son of God with power, according to the spirit.
Rom 1:4 Who is designated Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection of the dead),
He was the firstfruit, guaranteeing an order for all to be resurrected.
The one resurrection happens in stages, Christ, the first fruit, then those at his coming (his body, the first fruits), then the end/consumation (the non elect). All are the ONE resurrection, through the cross, death to life.
To me, the resurrection is a process, not a single event, and we currently are being ressurected, dying to flesh, death being swallowed up in life; with full consumation at his coming.
The resurrection of the non elect, is also a death to life process, death to "human possiblility=flesh, and life in the spirit, which is not happening now, but will occur at his coming.
i dont' see the non elect as resurrected first, then judged, but rather the resurrection to judgment as the same thing as the ONE resurrection, where death is swallowed up in life.
I was also thinking about how Christ died and rose again for us, but not so we don't have to die and be raised, but rather so that we can be baptized into his death. He is the forerunner.
Then I thot of this verse,
1Co 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
I started thinking about the elect, and their baptism into Christ's death, how they also were being baptized for the dead, the non elect, to occur at the consumation.
Shed new light on I Co 15:29.
Thanks to all for the input.
.
DWIGHT:
Hi Diana,
We know, by God's mercy, that all scripture is one. It all speaks of one God, one Lord and one Body. And all the parables, stories, history, shadows, types, mysteries and revelation point to Christ. He and He alone is the focal point of all scripture. He is, was and will be. Every type and shadow of the old Testament and the new Testament speak of Christ. You can't have an old (was) without having a new (is) without having Christ. And you can't have a will be without having Christ, for He is, was and will be. If the kindom of heaven is within you, and Christ who is the King of the kingdom is within you, then all these scriptures must be in us now.
You said, ""...we shall ALL be changed...at the last trumpet" When is the last trumpet? I'm not exactly sure, but at the very least it seems it hasn't happened yet.
I had always thought the last trumpet IS the resurrection, when Jesus returns:
Diana, I think all these scriptures (although they will happen in the future for sure) are happening within us today. I think that we are being changed today...the strong delusion suggests that we won't be changed until the last trump.
2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Our problem is not the future or the past, it's now. This verse is not for the future, it's for now....
1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he IS.
In Him,
Dwight
Redbird:
Dwight,
That was beautiful and I agree. For those who have ears, and eyes to see! :)
IS, WAS, AND WILL BE. All for our dear Lord Jesus Christ.
Glory be to God,
Lisa
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