> General Discussions
Two resurrections; when do they take place?
rocky:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on May 27, 2007, 02:51:15 PM ---Hello Jason
I do not know why you have, it appears to me, to have trouble with thinking that the dead can not be raised up to their flesh again. Jesus raised up Lazarus and others who had died and THEY went on and continued in their life times and fulfilled their lives in the flesh. So don't you think it could happen that the wicked are going to be raised up again in the flesh, their corruptable flesh and corruptable carnal minds to be tempted AGAIN and then finally perfected when at last God will be all in all?
For me it is clear. The dead IN CHRIST will be raised to Spiritual bodies, perfected and heirs of the promises of Christ. The dead in SINS will be raised to sinful bodies and perfected through the LOF.
Anyway, I commend your effort to find out the truth.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
--- End quote ---
For me, i struggle with the dead raised again into flesh bodies; because then they would have to die again (in the flesh), and be resurrected again (third resurrection) to become a spiritual body.
Otherwise, we in the flesh wouldn't have to die physically to be raised spiritual.
Unless, resurrection has nothing to do with death of the physical body, and it is all spiritual.
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Jason
You say : I believe that the second death occurs after this resurrection for those that are not the elect. The second death occurring after they are raised in incorruption. I see nothing at all in the Scripture that says anything contrary.
We are in like mind on that point. To add Jesus cautions us to Luke 21 : 36 ...pray that you may have the full strength and ability and be accounted worthy to escape all these things taken together that will take place, and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man.
Christ is talking here about what is going to happen in the days of vengeance until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. He says there will be great fear and dread of the things that are coming on the world and THEN they will see the Son of Man coming. Christ says that these things will BEGIN to occur and when they do we should LOOK UP. For me that means look above the worldly cares and fears in the world and lay our burdens down.
Rocky you say that : For me, i struggle with the dead raised again into flesh bodies; because then they would have to die again (in the flesh), and be resurrected again
Okay, so where did you get that conclusion? The scriptures say those who are alive at the return of Christ will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. So? Don't you think that is what can happen for them who are to be raised and changed in the LOF? Perhaps not so much in a twinkling of an eye though ;D :D
1 Cor 15 : 22 For just as because of their union of nature in Adam all people ALL PEOPLE....DIE...so also by virtue of their union of nature shall all in Christ be made alive. 23 BUT EACH in his own rank and turn.
....52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the sound of the last trumpet call, For a trumpet will sound, and the dead in Christ will be raised imperishable...IMPERISHABLE...free and immune from decay and we shall be CHANGED....TRANSFORMED... 8)
Peace be to you
Arcturus
Evan600:
--- Quote from: rocky on May 27, 2007, 03:06:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: Arcturus on May 27, 2007, 02:51:15 PM ---Hello Jason
I do not know why you have, it appears to me, to have trouble with thinking that the dead can not be raised up to their flesh again. Jesus raised up Lazarus and others who had died and THEY went on and continued in their life times and fulfilled their lives in the flesh. So don't you think it could happen that the wicked are going to be raised up again in the flesh, their corruptable flesh and corruptable carnal minds to be tempted AGAIN and then finally perfected when at last God will be all in all?
For me it is clear. The dead IN CHRIST will be raised to Spiritual bodies, perfected and heirs of the promises of Christ. The dead in SINS will be raised to sinful bodies and perfected through the LOF.
Anyway, I commend your effort to find out the truth.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
--- End quote ---
For me, i struggle with the dead raised again into flesh bodies; because then they would have to die again (in the flesh), and be resurrected again (third resurrection) to become a spiritual body.
Otherwise, we in the flesh wouldn't have to die physically to be raised spiritual.
Unless, resurrection has nothing to do with death of the physical body, and it is all spiritual.
--- End quote ---
Me too ;)
I see NOTHING in the Scripture that says anything about a resurrection of physical bodies. I only hear these things from people. It would be another "transformation." It would be:
1. Elect risen incorruptible. (scriptural)
2. Non elect raised corruptible(physical). (unscriptural)
3. After the non elect are raised 'corruptible,' they would die again. (first part unscriptural, second scriptural)
4. By now we are way off.
God bless
Kat:
In chapter 15 of Cor. who is Paul speaking to?
1Co 15:1 And, brothers, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you have received, and in which you stand;
So what is being said in this chapter is applied to the brothers/elect only. That is who he is explaining things to.
You gave those verses in the middle of that chapter, but there he is still talking to the brothers.
And he ends that chapter speaking to the brothers, he is telling them about their resurrection, the first resurrection. That word brothers can not be discounted.
1Co 15:50 And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
v. 51 Behold, I speak a mystery to you; we shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed;
v. 52 in a moment, in a glance of an eye, at the last trumpet. For a trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed.
v. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
v. 57 But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
v. 58 So that, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not without fruit in the Lord.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Okay Jason
So you agree that they, the non-elect die again, the second death, but not that they are raised corruptable. How do you figure that? You say the non-elect are not raised "corruptible"...YES you said it not me! Quote : "After the non elect are raised 'corruptible'....first part unscriptural....." unquote...So do you think the non-elect have no corruption that has to die? ...so what is going to die in the second scriptural death according to you: What is it that has to die and has to be defeated under the rule of Christ if not corruption and corruptible flesh? What then? Do you perhaps believe that the person is the flesh body. We are not our bodies but that which are in our bodies. The body of flesh carnality of mind has to die. It is the chaff as has been clarified by Joe via Ray Smith.
I believe the tares will perish. Then God will remake them through the LOF. They will perish in the second death and be remade through the correction process of rebirth. The elect will help Christ administer this Government to this end don't the scriptures say? ALL will be saved...but not in the same time or the same way!
You say : 3. After the non elect are raised 'corruptible,' they would die again. (first part unscriptural, second scriptural)
Are you confusing the issues here to try to get to something that doesn't exist? Either we believe God or we don't. He says what is going to happen and HE is not way off but false teaching can certainly be way out! :D
That is all I am going to say on this matter for this time being.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version