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Author Topic: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?  (Read 9362 times)

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SeeksAllTruth

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The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« on: April 30, 2007, 12:11:21 AM »

Jesus says in Mathew 25 v. 41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, Depart from Me accursed ones,into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.  I have been reading Ray's writtings about the fire.  Seeing that the fire is a spiritual cleansing that God will perform on those who don't or are not going through it now voluntarily.  I was doing quite well with this spiritually but tonight I run across this in Mathew Chapter 25.  This appears to be a fire for the devil, the devils angels and it states 'eternal'.  I'm confused, maybe.  Although spiritually I see the fire as eternal meaning, the fire is an eternal fire for purifying?  The context here in Mathew 25 then would also mean that the devil and his angels will be purified along with those who are not blessed of the Father. ?  Thoughts anyone?

In Christ Jesus,
Bruce
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skydreamers

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2007, 01:07:28 AM »

Hi Bruce,

I know how it feels when you think you are sure of some truth spiritually and then you come across a scripture that seems to throw a wrench in things.  I have had to learn to be patient and wait on the Lord to show me how these things fit.  That's been hard for me because I always want to know things, like, yesterday!

Firstly, if you have not yet done a study on the Greek word "aion" (and the Hebrew word "olam") which is what has been translated in most bibles as eternal, everlasting, forever etc etc etc then you would find this beneficial.  Here is a paper by Ray that addresses this:

http://bible-truths.com/aeonion.htm


It does seem to me that Satan and his angels will also be cleansed and come to be in unity with God. You can see that, for example, in these scriptures:

Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. (Satan and his angels)  For he must reign until he has put all his enemies (Satan and his angels) under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
1Co 15:24-28

who shall change our body of humiliation so that it may be fashioned like His glorious body, according to the working of His power, even to subdue all things to Himself.
Php 3:21


God is a consuming fire; thus He IS the Lake of Fire, but also so are the Elect. 

He makes His angels (messengers) spirits, His ministers a flaming fire.
Psa 104:4

Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be. But we know that when He shall be revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
1Jn 3:2

We will be like God in that we will also be a consuming fire.

The sinners in Zion are afraid; terror has surprised profane ones. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly (the Elect); he who despises the gain of oppressions, who shakes his hands free from holding bribes, who stops his ear from hearing of blood, and shuts his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:14-15

It's a "lake" of fire, or as Ray has pointed out, more accurately means "pond", because it consists of the FEW chosen.  The elect judge the world and the devil and his angels.....

Do you not know that we shall judge angels, not to mention the things of this life?
1Co 6:3

And judgments inevitably means that righteousness WILL be learned:

for when Your judgments are in the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.
Isa 26:9

Thus, the devil and his angels will be judged in the Lake of Fire, which IS the Elect, Christ and God, and they will learn righteousness.

It is a most amazing thing to contemplate that this "eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels", is actually the Elect who are presently being prepared to be Priests and Rulers with Christ.  God is bringing them to the point where they will be more than capable of judging the nations as well as the devil and his angels. 

Hope this helps you in your studies.

Peace,
Diana



 

« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 01:15:49 AM by skydreamers »
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SeeksAllTruth

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2007, 01:30:06 AM »

Thank you Diana.  Two thing's I will do this week, Lord willing...First, print your reply to have and ponder on and also a word study of what you have reccommended.  I'm also the type of personality that likes thing's 'microwaved'.  By that now said, I'll have to ask God to teach me the answers to these questions as he wills and I'll have to crucify my personality of eagerness and wait on HIM...Amen?  Thank you sister :)

May His Grace Rest Upon You!
Bruce
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DWIGHT

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2007, 01:41:08 AM »

Diana,

That was absolutely wonderful.  Now imagine all of what you just said, is happening right now in us, this very moment. For the kingdom of heaven is within you.  Jesus, is, was and will be.  All that happened in the past is Christ, all that is happening now is Christ, and all that will happen in the future is Christ.

The judging of Satan and his angels is now...in us.  What happend to Adam and Eve is happening in us now.  What will happen in the millenium is happening now.  Of course, all this is spiritual because God is spirit, but He has no begining and no end.  If we live in Christ, then we too are: is, was and will be, because as He is, so are we in this world.  Whatever is, was and will happen to Christ is, was and will happen to us.

John 17:22
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one
:

Bruce, pray also for ears to hear and eyes to see.

In Him,

Dwight
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skydreamers

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2007, 01:42:11 PM »

Quote
I'll have to ask God to teach me the answers to these questions as he wills and I'll have to crucify my personality of eagerness and wait on HIM...Amen?

Amen brother!! Me too...I love the way you put that....crucify my personality of eagerness.....I hear you brother, I hear you!

Peace to you,
Diana
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eggi

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2007, 03:55:06 PM »

Great post, Diana.

I just thought that these scriptures fit in with what you said previously:

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1Co 3:14-15 KJV)


The fire SAVES!

God bless you,
Eirik
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Here’s how to tell if you have faith; how do you live… what do you do… what do you accomplish in life… what are your goals… What is there about you that proves that you have this faith and belief inside of you? What?

hebrewroots98

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2007, 05:12:40 PM »

Yes Diana and Dwight...absolutely divne to know that we are living this out as we speak.  RIGHT NOW!!!  What an awesome delight and yet responsibility we have being in HIM.  To think that we are judging as Crists representatives right in the here and now is interesting. 

Can you give me an example of how you see this jour judging of others is working in our lives today?  How does our judgements on people today actually judge/convict them today (through the Holy Spirit in us convicting them of their wrongs?  And what it they cannot see their errors and or cannot repent of them?)  ???
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DWIGHT

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2007, 10:04:16 PM »

Hi Susan,

God has commsioned us to speak the words of His mouth to the whole world...and to Babylon...

Jeremiah 5:14
Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them


Rev. 9:17
And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.


Psalm 97:3
A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about.


We are the two witnesses in Revelation....

Rev. 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

This is the power that God has given to His elect through His word.

In Him,

Dwight

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hebrewroots98

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2007, 11:30:27 PM »

Whew, that is meat for me to take some time to digest :P.  thank you for the wisdom here Dwight. 

So, basically, the words that are spoken out of our (elect/chosen) mouth are the words
of Christ in us and the words are not a physical fire, but rather a spiritual fire that will burn/judge their untrue beliefs/lifestyles ... ON THE SPOT/AT THAT VERY TIME; (so then God holds us accountable at the time that we are informing these people that they are wrong?)

Jer. 5:14-HOW does our fire devour them? 

WHAT JUDGEMENTS do they receive from us, Christs' Ambassadors?

How do we burneth up our enemies around us? (Do we just anger them by telling them the truths?)

I'm sorry, but, I don't understand the power that I am to have right now ???  How is this power supposed to manifest in my daily life (especially when I am still not fully matured in the spirit)?

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DWIGHT

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2007, 12:44:33 AM »

Hi Susan,

I loved your response.

"I'm sorry, but, I don't understand the power that I am to have right now   How is this power supposed to manifest in my daily life (especially when I am still not fully matured in the spirit)?

James 4:6
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

All these enemies that we are to devour with the fire that comes from God's word are not physical people.  They are the enemies that are within us.  We are to love are enemies...those are real people.  But the enemy that the Lord will consume with the fire of his breath, is our old man. 

God has sent a spirit of delusion to Christianity, that they should believe the lie.  What lie?  The lie that they believe is, that everything is physical, including our enemies.  Yet our Lord said....

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Rom. 8:7

Susan, everything is within us...heaven and earth....the kingdom of heaven and the kingdoms of this world....the first Adam and the last Adam....the called and the chosen....the great Whore and the Bride...the beast and false prophet and the great red dragon...the King of kings and Lord of lords...etc.



That is why Jesus said to the multitudes (Christianity)

Matthew 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand

Matthew 13:34
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:


But to His elect He said...

Mark 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:


The people we love...the beast within (our flesh), God must destroy with the fire of His word. Hope this helps a little.

In His love,

Dwight















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hillsbororiver

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2007, 11:08:33 AM »

Hi Susan,

God has commissioned us to speak the words of His mouth to the whole world...and to Babylon...

Jeremiah 5:14
Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them


Rev. 9:17
And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.


Psalm 97:3
A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about.


We are the two witnesses in Revelation....

Rev. 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

This is the power that God has given to His elect through His word.

In Him,

Dwight



Hello Dwight,

I believe what is written above is speaking of a future season, the judgement, the age after this one. Look at the powers displayed by the Lord's elect, can anyone presently bring plagues or even convict a false prophet, or a lying shepherd?

His chosen will be commissioned to work with the Lord but the fall harvest has yet to begin. I think we can sometimes apply "is, was, will be" without considering that it pertains primarily to His Character and His plan of salvation for all.


Lev 26:4  Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.

Ecc 3:1  To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

Psa 81:3  Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day.

Jer 8:7  Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.

Hab 2:3  For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.

His plan of salvation has "seasons" and "appointed times." The elect are presently being judged and prepared for their inheritence at the resurrection.

From Lake of Fire Part 12;


THE SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD

The called and chosen were born to be Judges:

"Or are you not aware that the saints [the manifested Sons and Daughters of God] shall JUDGE THE WORLD? And if the world shall be judged by YOU, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" (I Cor. 6:2).

"And I saw thrones and they sat upon them, and JUDGMENT was given unto them [the saints, the manifested Sons of God]…" (Rev. 20:4).

Every man will be judged and the Saints will do the judging:

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it: and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were JUDGED EVERY MAN according to their works" (Rev. 20:13).

JUDGES, LORDS, PRIESTS AND KINGS

The called and chosen were born to be Judges, Lords, Priests and Kings:

"If we suffer, we shall also REIGN with Him…" (II Tim. 2:12).

"And has made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall REIGN on the earth" (Rev. 5:10).

We are the church of the Living God, and what is the church in relation to Christ?

"And has put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the Head over all things to the church, Which IS HIS BODY, the fullness of Him that fills all in all" (Eph. 1:22-23).

"For we are members of HIS BODY, OF his flesh, AND OF his bones… This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and THE CHURCH [the heavenly, not the carnal church]" (Eph. 5:30 & 32).

Whatever Christ does, WE DO ALSO, because we ARE HIS BODY! Yes, WE, the manifest Sons and Daughters of God, will JUDGE THE WORLD!

But are the saints ready, equipped, and experienced to actually judge the world by the mere fact that they accept Jesus as the Priest, Lord, King, and Judge of the world? We are part of this world until God takes us out of it. We too have need of a Priest, a Lord, a King, and a Judge.

All too many Christians accept Jesus as their Priest, Lord, King, and Judge in ceremony only. In fact, I doubt that many accept Jesus as their "JUDGE" even in a ceremonial way, let alone by actual experience OF that judgment in their daily lives.

We must first be judged ourselves if we are to became the judges of the great sea of humanity.

(Ray Smith) http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html

As far as going into Babylon to preach or "save" this is not our place, only God does the calling and choosing, we must set an example and be prepared to speak to those who are drawn.   


GOD PREDETERMINES WHO GETS SAVED AND WHEN

"Now we are aware that God [Who? GOD. Men—ourselves? NO—GOD] is working all together for the good of those who are loving God who are called according to the purpose that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren. Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also" (Rom. 8:28-30, Concordant Literal New Testament).

It is ALL OF GOD. It is not wrong to tell others of your knowledge of God and His Word. It is not, however, your responsibility to "get people saved." Only God can do that.

It is GOD who does the calling:

"For ye see your calling brethren how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen [Who? ‘GOD’] the weak things of this world to confound the things which are mighty…" (I Cor. 1:26-27).

It is GOD who does the dragging:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent Me, draw him [Gk: ‘drag him’]…" (John 6:44).

It is CHRIST Who chooses from those His Father dragged:

"Ye have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).

Eventually this will include all mankind:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32).

And all will respond to God’s judgments and chastisements:

"That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those in earth, and those under the earth; And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11—See also Isa. 26:9b).

And let’s not forget:

"…no man CAN say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit" (I Cor. 12:3b).

Which is totally contrary to the horrible teachings of such men as John Hagee and Herbert W. Armstrong on this subject. Herbert Armstrong said: "Yes, every knee will bow, and if they don’t GOD WILL BREAK THEIR KNEES." Oh the unscriptural foolishness of carnal—minded men.

But do orthodox Christians believe that these Scriptures mean what they say? Of course not, and that is why they quote Phil. 2:12 "…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," thinking that this takes Sovereignty away from God and places it back with man and his fabled "free will." Not so. They forget to read the next verse which tells us why we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling:

"For [‘for’ means ‘because’] it is GOD [Who? Man? NO! ‘GOD’] which works in you both TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).


LIGHT AND SALT DON’T ARGUE OR MAKE NOISE

"Ye are the salt of the earth… Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid… Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 5:1,14,16).

Salt does not make any noise, and light does not argue Scriptures. Neither salt nor light makes any sound whatsoever. Maybe there is a lesson in there.

Too many people learn a few truths of God and think that they are ready to take on the world. They usually start by trying to embarrass their Pastor with their new-gained knowledge. Usually they fall flat on their face on the very first try. It’s all about motivation. If your motivation is carnal, God will not back you. Yes, I know, all of you are saying: "But my motivation is to show them God’s truths." Yes, sure, I understand, but THEY DON’T WANT TO HEAR GOD’S TRUTHS, and you already know this, so what is your point? Leave them alone and let them taste your salt and see your light and admire your good works, and perchance they will even praise God for your new-found humility,

You will never argue anyone into accepting the truths of God’s Word. As salesmen are often taught: "You might win the argument, but loose the sale," so don’t argue. And this: "He who is persuaded against his will; is of the same opinion still."

I receive a lot of emails from people who beg me to come to their rescue because they are about to have a second session with their pastor or friend, but have failed miserably on the first go-round. Now they want me to give them the ammunition they need to do a slam-dunk on their second attempt to embarrass their pastor or friend. Give it up—that attitude is wrong. Such a carnal exhibition of prideful flesh is akin to someone looking for a street fight merely because he has just acquired a black belt in karate.

HOW TO DEMONSTRATE YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH

I personally know a man who has his little wife working two jobs to support their family so that he can study the Scriptures and enter into doctrinal debates with other Christians at the local Caf頡s a perpetual hobby. Notice the admonition of the Apostle Peter:

"Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; having your conversation [Gk: ‘conduct’] honest [Gk: ‘honorable’] among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may BY YOUR GOOD WORKS, [Not your clever Bible arguments], which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation" (I Pet. 2:11-12).

Your good works and righteous character will pay dividends to others eventually—if not in this life, then in the Judgment.

From "Winning Souls For Jesus"   http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm

His Peace to you,

Joe


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hebrewroots98

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2007, 02:06:47 PM »

Exactly my point Joe.  Thank you so much for this clarification.  I was wondering how we could attain the full POWER to be JUDGING the world NOW. ???  I know that none of us have grown into completely mature spiritual people while still in this body and in this life in order to fairly and completely be the judge of the multitudes currently in this life.   I wasn't seeing how WE could be judging and devouring and helping to purge the masses right now, those whom weren't living Godly lives. Apparently this power does not pertain to this life, but to the life to come, where we will be assisting the Lord to purge the sins out of the carnal minded ...with power and truth.

Dwight, I do see that we do have the power and should use it to kill the enemies of OURSELF...the old man/the fleshly and carnal person that tries to rules us; but, I never have thought that this meant that we had the power to judge others just yet on this earth.  I thank you for your input here, but, apparently I was not asking my prior question coherently enough to be understood, I'm sorry about that; however, I have understood that our new lives dwell in the spiritual and not physical realm and that WE are the Kingdom of Heaven and that We are the Temple where HE DWELLS in us, and that HE uses us and empowers us to speak on His behalf (prophesy/teach/witness) and that HE is  the one whom drags people to himself in order to be in the position of the 'elect' status, and that HE is not commissioning US to do that with others in this earth just YET.)     

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Kat

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2007, 03:07:13 PM »


Hi Joe,

I too think that the judgments the elect will do is in a future season, the age after this one.
Here is a excerpt from Ray's no.12 paper 'GOD JUDGES THE WORLD IN A POND.'

http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html -------------------------------

JUDGES, LORDS, PRIESTS AND KINGS

The called and chosen were born to be Judges, Lords, Priests and Kings:

"If we suffer, we shall also REIGN with Him…" (II Tim. 2:12).

"And has made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall REIGN on the earth" (Rev. 5:10).

We are the church of the Living God, and what is the church in relation to Christ?

"And has put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the Head over all things to the church, Which IS HIS BODY, the fullness of Him that fills all in all" (Eph. 1:22-23).

"For we are members of HIS BODY, OF his flesh, AND OF his bones… This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and THE CHURCH [the heavenly, not the carnal church]" (Eph. 5:30 & 32).

Whatever Christ does, WE DO ALSO, because we ARE HIS BODY! Yes, WE, the manifest Sons and Daughters of God, will JUDGE THE WORLD!

But are the saints ready, equipped, and experienced to actually judge the world by the mere fact that they accept Jesus as the Priest, Lord, King, and Judge of the world? We are part of this world until God takes us out of it. We too have need of a Priest, a Lord, a King, and a Judge.

All too many Christians accept Jesus as their Priest, Lord, King, and Judge in ceremony only. In fact, I doubt that many accept Jesus as their "JUDGE" even in a ceremonial way, let alone by actual experience OF that judgment in their daily lives.

We must first be judged ourselves if we are to became the judges of the great sea of humanity.
-----------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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DWIGHT

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2007, 10:13:34 PM »

Hi Susan, Joe, and Kat,

Perhaps I should make myself a little clearer.  The people in the pagan world, and the people in Babylon are not who I was referring to.  It is the beast in us, and the Babylonian doctrines in us that must be destroyed by the fire of God's burning.  We are to love our enemies (real, physical people).  I'm not talking about some future judgement in the millennium....that will happen for sure.  The only person that I'm going to judge right now is me.  And that can only be done by God's word in me.  Hope that is a little clearer.

In Him,

Dwight 








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hebrewroots98

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2007, 01:12:20 AM »

Thanks for that clarification Dwight; I had thought that you were speaking of us having power in this life to rule, judge, and such with the 'world' right now.   Now I understand what you meant. 8) 8) 8). Thanks!
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mrsnacks

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2007, 02:01:54 AM »

So does the elect include all believers, or are the elect only a few chosen from the group of believers ?
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Kat

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Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2007, 10:54:35 AM »


Hi mrsnacks,

The elect, saints, brethren/brothers, chosen and believers are those I believe the scripture are referring to as those few that are being judged now.  These are those who will be in the first resurrection when Christ returns and will rule and reign with Him on earth for the age.
Here are a few email where Ray speaks about this.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,102.0.html -----------

Ray

When the new testament talks about the saints or the church is that referring to the called or the chosen?

Regards
Daryn

Dear Daryn:

The answer is BOTH.  God calls "His people"--His chosen, elect, saints, out of Babylon, which is the church of God turned apostate. But when we come out of Babylon, we are still saints and we are still member of the The Church of Jesus Christ, The Church of the Living God. As such we assemble ourselves together with believers in light, not the apostate church of darkness. We are to have no fellowship with them (II John 10, II Cor. 6:14-18, Rev. 8:4, I Cor. 5:9-13, Eph. 5:6-11, etc.).

God be with you,

Ray


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2633.0.html -------

Here are those who are Christ's "BROTHERS":  "For whosoever shall DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven, the same IS MY BROTHER...." (Matt. 12:50).  Contrarywise, "whosoever shall NOT do the will of My father is NOT my brother..."  This is because "Ye [same scribes and Pharisees] are of YOUR FATHER [not Christ's FAther, but YOUR father] THE DEVIL"  (John 8:44).

God be with you,
Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2059.0.html -------

Dear Kelly:
Those whom God has foreordained to be the elect will always be the elect. The chosen elect cannot be lost.  But you and I do not know exactly who is and who isn't an elect. Only God's knows those who are His, and therefore, we can never let down our guard, because we might only think that we are elect.  I have seen and witnessed this with my own eyes where those who appeared to be elect, turned and now blaspheme the name of the Saviour they claimed to worship a short while back.
Sorry, don't know of any books that you can read on this subject.

God be with you,
Ray
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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mrsnacks

  • Guest
Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2007, 04:27:12 PM »

So Kat - do you believe you are part of the elect ? How about Ray ? If I am to understand correctly - can we ever know ? IT would seem then we may be deceived in thinking we are saved and are His and that is as bad to me as anything I can imagine. I hope I am understanding this. Thanks
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DWIGHT

  • Guest
Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2007, 06:58:10 PM »

mrsnaks,

This is in Kat's post to you.  Maybe you overlooked it.

"Those whom God has foreordained to be the elect will always be the elect. The chosen elect cannot be lost.  But you and I do not know exactly who is and who isn't an elect. Only God's knows those who are His, and therefore, we can never let down our guard, because we might only think that we are elect.  I have seen and witnessed this with my own eyes where those who appeared to be elect, turned and now blaspheme the name of the Saviour they claimed to worship a short while back."
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mrsnacks

  • Guest
Re: The Fire Jesus Spake In Mathew ?
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2007, 09:34:08 PM »

I did get it. He says only God knows so if that is true we don't know. We may think we know but we can't be sure right ?
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