Jehovah's Witnesses

[rk12201960]

                                       E-MAIL TO RAY


COMMENT:  If you believe that I teach virtually the same as the Jehovah's Witnesses, then I can assure absolutely, that you have NOT "seen the other side of the story."  The doctrines of the JW's DO NOT Scripturally replace the pagan teachings of Christendom. You will be amazed when you finally do see the truth.
    God be with you,
    Ray
    
     I've read testimonies of Ex-JWs, and other apposing views, but in the end after using my power of reasoning i made the decision, and i'm happy with it.

    PS   Reading "Ex-JW's" views or other Christian "opposing views" is hardly the place to learn the truth regarding what is right or wrong with JW doctrine. That's kinda like learning the "truth" about the Catholics from the Protestants.


Amen.
I'm totally 100% in agreement with you Ray.
Being a JW for 13 years and 2 years of studies before I was dunked, I know JW's teaching and Rays LOF is far beyond their understanding. How do I know?

well... I won't get into it because I don't want to take away from the real truth sent to us by God in Rays writings. Its on the site for reading.

I know of what I speak (got the scares to prove it)
"Door to door" not in the bible in the way Jw's use it to preach.

I don't take away from the effort of those who seek God and do as they think is right, thus we have (Saul) Paul, but when Gods calls you its not something you can push away, just ask Paul.(when you see him)

Until you are called it don't seem to be as it really is. As Rays said the truth will set you free. I think I've read that somewhere.

Blessings and Wisdom to you Ray.
Your brother.
Randy

[Redbird]

Good Morning Randy ~

John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

That's one of my favorites.  

There are still some JWs knocking on my door from time to time.  I just thank them for what they are trying to do. I once tried to share some truth with them and they were set in their ways.  Oh well...
For now.

Peace to you, Lisa

[rk12201960]

Hi Lisa,
Good try. 
The JW's are told by their elders and such not to take anything from anyone. Great test of faith huh.
One day they will know the truth and.... 

Have a great day.
Peace and wisdom to you Lisa

Randy

[Patrick]

Hi Lisa,
Good try. 
The JW's are told by their elders and such not to take anything from anyone. Great test of faith huh.
One day they will know the truth and.... 

Have a great day.
Peace and wisdom to you Lisa

Randy

I have given some of Ray's articles to the JW's that come visit me; LOF part 2 & 9. The reason for those 2 particular papers was due to a discussion about Adam & Eve being created "perfect."
This was about 6 weeks ago, and I have not seen them since.
Susan, the regular "Witness" that comes by, seems to be very open at times; others not so much. She has told me that she has been a Witness all her life, I'm guessing she is in her late 30's.
When I first asked them to just read what Ray had to say, the gentleman that came with Susan asked if he could bring the articles back "shot full of holes" (his exact words). I told him absolutely, ONLY if the "holes" are backed up with a minimum of 2-3 Scriptures. Needless to say, they did not take the papers that time.
The next time Susan came by, we were going over some Scripture and "created in His image" came up. She asked what I thought that meant. After explaining "created" did not mean past tense because if that was the case then that god failed. It is an on going process; "creating." Susan said that is a very interesting concept. That is when she agreed to take Ray's material.
I don't know if they will ever be back. We'll see, but at least one JW's in Arizona has some of the LOF series.

I know, some may ask why I continue to talk to them. I talk to them, I just don't take any material they offer anymore.
I'm nice to them and Susan and myself have had some good discussions I think.
But, God has not put the desire in my heart to tell them not to come back.

[rk12201960]

Hi Patrick
I hope Susan takes more of Rays LOF papers.
If you can speak to them and they take the papers, (some take the papers at the door then trash them when they get in the car group. It might be a good idea to ask her what she thought about the papers) chances are they don't share the info b/c it could be considered a reason to be expelled if she tries to share with others.

As a rule JW's aren't allowed to speak to me, other than the elders when they try to save me if and when they ever come back.

I will pray for your success and that God softens Susan heart.

Peace and Wisdom,
Randy

[skydreamers]

Hi Guys,

I too have tried entering into discussions with some door-knocking JW's.  My past is SDA (seventh-day adventisit)...a couple common doctrines held by both churches is the sleep of death, and annihilation.  One of the ladies, who was extrememly sweet, kept coming back, only with a different person each time.  She had been JW for 20 years or so.  I also gave her some papers of Ray's.  I think the others really wanted nothing to do with me, but this one lady, bless her heart, she just wouldn't give up. 

However, I could see she was not "hearing" what I was saying or showing her, she just kept bringing me her material and trying to show me where I was in error.  The verse in 1Timothy 2:4 which reads:

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

She kept insisting that the word "all" really meant "all sorts of" men.  She would not see it otherwise, no matter how many other scriptures I showed her.  Eventually I realized we were just spending our time trying to convince each other....we kept going in circles. 

I finally had to tell her that I was happy with where my own studies were going, and that I could just not see myself studying JW material with her any longer.  She had "showed up" at my door unexpectantly with yet another eager JW who was Greek and knew the Greek language.  While my JW friend understood and graciously bowed out, her Greek friend started in on me about Revelation...and all the scary things in there that I should be aware of....I didn't even go there with her.  I let her rant, and then said thank you...and that was the end of that...haven't seen them since.

I feel kind of bad for ending our studies because at least the one lady kept coming back.  I kept asking God if He wanted this to continue...but I really felt like she was stuck where she was and as kind as she was, she was not yet open minded. 

Anyways, she has my number, and certainly knows where I live, and if she ever did have questions, she knows I would welcome them. 

The whole experience did show me however, how amazingly closed people can be to even discussing the mere possibility that God is able to save all of mankind.  Why is that so scary or offensive to people? 

I guess it's like Ray says, "they despise the word of God".   

Peace to you guys,
Diana
 

[seminole]

Here's the thing.... they know what they believe just like all of the people here know what they believe. I think it was Joseph Smith(?) that they have ,to believe the writings of. Maybe, I am getting it confused with Mormons, beats me. Most of the people that I have seen here have the writings of Ray Smith that they believe in. Sounds like an unending mind battle to me. The main thing is God's word. I don't care if I have written what I believe to be an incredible paper, it does not supercede the word Of God. I think we all can agree that the folks on TBN, JW or anything else can take verses from the Bible and make it fit however you want it to. It is not usually in context but it can be done.
Seminole

[gmik]

Seminole, Years ago in a Bible study we "proved" that Santa Claus does wear red!!!  I saw it!! We had a Greek professor in our group and he actually read in Greek all the time.  I don't think he owned an English Bible.  And He was as Lutheran as they come!  Why didn't he see this stuff, why didn't he "get It"?

Everytime I "get into" something new, I am amazed that I hadn't seen it before.  So, is there something up the road in a few years that I will "get into" again??  Is there another "Ray" out there who has new, further in, revelation??

Who knows what the journey that God has for us will be.  Right now, Yes, the Bible is first, but I can't understand it all bymyself. I need teachers such as Ray and many on this forum.

I have known that scripture all my life...God wills that ALL men be saved....did I believe it?? No.  But God chose Ray to show it to me. Do I believe it now??  You betcha!!  Just because Ray said so???  No, from studying it out for myself, from counsel of wise people, from reading and re reading, praying, comparing, searching, you know, what we all do!  The Spirit bears witness too.

I can't recall why I got off on all that...I was just going to comment that all people and religions do have their own take on scripture.  But someone has to be right.

[skydreamers]

I have known that scripture all my life...God wills that ALL men be saved....did I believe it?? No.  But God chose Ray to show it to me. Do I believe it now??  You betcha!!  Just because Ray said so???  No, from studying it out for myself, from counsel of wise people, from reading and re reading, praying, comparing, searching, you know, what we all do!  The Spirit bears witness too.

Amen Gena!

[GODSown1]

hey hi ya all,
               um! I been tryna hold off on askn dis Question But!! I keep gettn askd it & I cant really answer it, Here goes!. If all man is 2 b saved, wots da point? if all r 2 b saved! I cant understand it, if u live ur life 4 GOD wholeheartedly everyday for say 5-10yrz, But! den 1 day u get that mad U kill sum1 but! den U repent! blah! blah! & start 2 live GODs way again even tho in jail, would u b still b saved, Im not tryna b funny or difficult its just d@ I really wanna Know!!, I love da fact I cum across dis syte of Rays, Buts its tryna understand fings fully. The ALL r 2 b saved is a hard 1 to xsplain 2 pple especially wen I cant xsplain it But! 4 sum reason I believe it, probably bcoz its TRUE!!, aye?. lol!
                 muchLOVE! 2 all Pera

ps. PlezZ! help me understand lol!

[skydreamers]

Hi Pera, I love your writing style, very cool.   

I think I understand your question.  Most Christians come from a teaching that they are being saved from an eternity in hell.  But the wages of sin is death, not eternal burning. 

Saving and salvation, in the original Greek words, also includes the definition of to heal and to make whole.  You ask, "what's the point?"

Here's my take on it.  God wants a family.  He has a great and grand plan on how He is going to achieve this.  It involves taking his children from darkness and bringing them into the full light of his knowledge, peace and love.  This is a process, to take us from marred vessels and heal us and make us whole.

He wants children who will be like Him, who are the "apple of His eye".  He knows exactly how to accomplish this.  He would never abandon His beloved children to a fabled pit of hell, else what kind of father would He be? 

There is a lot that is involved in this whole process...but the point is...God is in the process of creating His family.  He needs to teach us, discipline us, and for a time subject us to futility, in order to accomplish His purpose.  We may not understand all His ways and methods...but we can be sure of what His goal is:  a family of brothers and sisters who will be in His image.

Hope this helps you somewhat,
Peace,
Diana

[GODSown1]

hey Hi Diana,
                Well 1st of all im glad sum1 likes ma style! lol!, & 2nd um!! no not really I still dont get it lol!, But! I do understand wot ur sayn, But! wen i sed "wots da point", Im like sayn well if all r guna bv saved n e wayZ Y do we hav 2 do wot we hav 2, Wen apparently we All r 2 b saved!, Im sorry! eh' I h8 sounding dum! lol!, I just cant get ma Head around it lol! its driving me nuts! 2 tell U da Truth!
           Thank U all da same Diana

ps. I no u jus tryna Help lol!

[Chris R]

Hello Pera,

Your question has been asked hundreds of times on this site, Why live a good life, if were all going to be saved anyway?

Then if in your heart you wish to steal, kill, destroy, lie and cheat, you have answered your own question, because these are the things you desire.

These acts however do not go un-judged, and there is comming a day of reckoning for such things.

Yes it is true salvation is a done deal, Christ came to save the world, and will accomplish the will of His Father.

That being said, "Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. "[Rom . 12-19]. These are not just idle words to be read over and forgot, All men will be Saved, but first comes Judgment.


Peace

Chris R

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Pera,

Here is an e-mail (to Ray) example of what Chris mentioned;


I stumbled across your site while searching for a Bible verse.   Most of your writings went WAY over my head as I am not very knowledgeable about the Bible as yet. 
My question to you is very simple.   (You need not go into deep detail so as not to confuse me.) 

I want to know if you believe that no matter how one lives their life; no matter how "good" or "evil" they are as a human being on this planet earth, all end up with the same fate?

You got me wondering about all the people who don't even know of God so they cannot make a choice to believe or not believe.  My question, however, speaks of those who are aware of "God", and who choose to live a life apart from what can be called moral and good.   Now, by moral and good I basically mean following the laws of the land, and reaching out to people in need.

Thanks,

Diane

[Ray Replies]

Dear Diane:

A full answer to your question requires many pages to answer, however, I will give you the abbreviated answer.

Will all mankind eventually be saved? YES!  Can they live like hell all of their lives and still go to heaven when they die? NO! There is a process. God has a plan and He is working His plan to perfection.

God does not even call all or most people to salvation in this lifetime. Even some of those who are called turn from God. And billions have never heard of Jesus Christ in the first place.

The answer is that God nowhere says that one must be saved in this life only or he can never be saved. That is a nasty little piece of heresy that is taught by the theologians of Christendom. It is a way to keep people in fear so that they keep "praying and paying."

If you read all of my paper "EXPOSING THOSE WHO CONTRADICT" you will come to the section where God prophesies the resurrection of all the dead Israelites in the book of Ezekiel. Most of Israel never obeyed or loved God. God said that they were WORST than the heathen and pagans in their religious practices. They committed every foul and evil dead and blasphemed the name of God. And yet, God says that He will resurrected them all back to life and put His spirit in them, and they SHALL KNOW Who God is. They will become God's people and God will become their God.

The same is true for ALL UNSAVED AND UNBELIEVING humanity. All humanity will be judged, chastised, and purged of their evil heart and carnal wicked mind. EVERYONE!  Our Apostle Paul teaches us that we can judge ourselves NOW, and then we won't have to be judged LATER. But sooner or later, ALL WILL BE JUDGED AND PURIFIED. You can believe it. You can take it to the bank! No one will escape the judgments and chastisements of God Almighty. Jesus Christ has already paid the PENALTY for our sins, but our deceitful and wicked heart that is at the very seat of all sin, must yet be dealt with. Too bad these simple Bible Truths are not taught in the churches.

I would encourage you to read all the papers on my web site and look up ALL THE SCRIPTURES. God will guide your understanding and you will become wise in things you never thought possible.

God be with you.

Sincerely,

Ray

[Kat]

Hi Pera,

In your first question you said;

if u live ur life 4 GOD wholeheartedly everyday for say 5-10yrz, But! den 1 day u get that mad U kill sum1 but! den U repent! blah! blah! & start 2 live GODs way again even tho in jail, would u b still b saved,

You do realize that Christians in the church, believe that they are living whole heartedly for God, but they are the 'called' not the 'chosen', big difference.
If you were among the few chosen, living your life whole heartedly for God, you would never get mad and kill someone. 
Once you truely receive the Spirit of Christ, you are judged now and chastened to overcome the pulls of the flesh. 
Christ is teaching His 'chosen' to love your enemies, a spiritual commandment that the 'called' can not do.

Mat 5:43  "You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
v. 44  But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
v. 45  that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Now then it matters not what you have done in your pass life when Christ does choose you.  He will forgive everything you have done before, when you repent at that point. 
Look at Paul, he was imprisoning and having the believers killed, when Christ came to him on the road to Damascus.

Act 8:1  And Saul(Paul) approved of his execution. And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.
v. 2  Devout men buried Stephen and made great lamentation over him.
v. 3  But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison.

But he rose to be one of the chief Apostles and wrote 13 of the books in the NT.

Rom 1:1  Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

I hope this helps your understanding 

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[GODSown1]

Hey! Hi all,
              shut! mE up! I like it like d@ :D, I just wana say Thanx! sO much 4 given mE a way! way! better understanding! Hardowt!, PRAISE The LORD!!, BlesSnZ! 2 U all wit muchLOVE!! in abundance!
               Peace & mercy Pera

PS. I fink dis Forum is so Amazing!, keEP it up