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Can I get your help and understanding?
YellowStone:
Hi Tim and Arcturus, :)
I agree that Christ often used sarcasm to great effect; Yet, Christ was not speaking at anyone in this instance; he was speaking too them....
Luk 16:1 ¶ And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
No, I do not read a single hint of sarcasm in this parable. :)
However, we are not so different on our views.......you wrote:
The only thing that the steward was accused of was wasting that for which he was in charge. What the steward did then was give what was not his to give, to other people, in the hopes that they would give him refuge when he lost his stewardship. He bought them off with what was not his.
Do we not also as sons of God, waste what is not ours. Who can say that they have not wasted some of the truth that we have been intrusted with? I know that I cannot. :(
Are we not as ambassadors of God to spread the truth and good fortune (please do not tell me that having the truth is not worth more than gold) that God has so graciously given us to use (for we own nothing that either will not be destroyed or owned by someone else later on.) How can we be true children of God and withhold the love and truth to ourselves? Yet the truth is more than words, anyone can speak. The truth is love and charity.
1Cr 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity.
We are to give of ourselves. How can we be faithful in the material objects given us, if we hide them away and keep them for ourselves at the exclusion of all others? Is such as this any different than the servant entrusted with a single talent?
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
What then did Christ say?
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Does this not give perfect witness to the following words of Christ in Luke 16:10 & 11?
Luk 16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
Luk 16:11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true [riches]?
Tim, I know you did not discount my post. :)
I just wanted to explain further why I believe the spiritual message was not laced with sarcasm. :)
Comments always welcome.
In Christ with Love,
Darren
TimothyVI:
Hi Darren,
I truly hope that I did not appear to discount your post. I have the greatest respect for your insight and have learned much from your posts.
I can see where Jesus would commend the steward for sharing with others if he did it for the glory of God. I fear that I did a poor job of relaying that I think that the problem was, and Jesus makes it clear, that both the steward and the Pharisees may have done what was expected of them in regards to sharing their mammon, but both did it for the wrong reason. They did it to justify themselves with men. That is why Jesus said that God knew the real reason, what was in their hearts.
Here is the point that really made me question if Jesus was merely using sarcasm.
I thought that the children of light were the followers of Jesus. Why then would Jesus say that the sons of the world were wiser than the children of light unless He was being sarcastic?
I believe that He sarcastically added this line so that his listeners would know that commending the unjust steward, which He had done just prior to saying this, was also sarcasm.
At any rate, I am not here to teach. I just gave my opinion on blakparty’s question. We all get what God permits us to get from scriptures.
Far too many times I must admit, I don’t get it at all. That is why I read what Ray has to say about it.
Love to all,
Tim
hillsbororiver:
Hello all,
Perhaps sarcastic is not quite the description of this parable, maybe facetious or tongue in cheek may be a better way to phrase His Words.
In the worldly way of doing things a moral person has less options on how to gain money than an immoral person.
An immoral person might use stealing, lying, prostitution, conning, selling contraband, etc. These are not options for a moral God obeying person. So in that regard a worldly, immoral person is wiser if the only goal is temporal and their only god is money/worldly gain.
That is my take on this.
His Peace to you,
Joe
TimothyVI:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on May 08, 2007, 09:15:02 PM ---Hello all,
Perhaps sarcastic is not quite the description of this parable, maybe facetious or tongue in cheek may be a better way to phrase His Words.
In the worldly way of doing things a moral person has less options on how to gain money than an immoral person.
An immoral person might use stealing, lying, prostitution, conning, selling contraband, etc. These are not options for a moral God obeying person. So in that regard a worldly, immoral person is wiser if the only goal is temporal and their only god is money/worldly gain.
That is my take on this.
His Peace to you,
Joe
--- End quote ---
Thanks Joe,
Perhaps sarcastic was not the right word to use.
Your definition of wise may explain why the wisdom of the world is foolishness in the eyes of God.
Tim
YellowStone:
Not a problem Tim, :)
Here's a question. I do not know of a time that Jesus used sarcasm in a parable and it is my understanding that he did not. Am I wrong?
Paul writes on the same subject. (RSV)
Rom 11:13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry
Rom 11:14 in order to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.
I think also that there is great insight in Pauls following words.
Rom 11:16 If the dough offered as first fruits is holy, so is the whole lump; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18 do not boast over the branches. If you do boast, remember it is not you that support the root, but the root that supports you.
Rom 11:19 You will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe.
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
Paul says in verse 14, that he speaks differently in order to make his fellow jews jealous, yet in verse 18, he instructs that we must not boast. Paul was speaking of the promise in such away that his listeners yearned for it; however, it was not his to give. I believe that this is what is meant in Luke 16:8
Luke 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
Perhaps Christ used a play on words when he said: "for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light." What did he really mean? The wisdom of this world is foolishness.
1Cr 1:20 Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
I believe that Paul spoke the foolish words of the world in order for his real message to be heard, in other words he fed them milk perhaps sweetened with honey, instead of the meaty, heavy truth known to the children of light. I am afraid if we dismiss Christs remarks as being sarcastic, that we miss fully the spiritual message behind the parable.
Tim, I truly appreciate your comments. :)
Thank you my brother,
Darren
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