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Author Topic: evil  (Read 4373 times)

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seminole

  • Guest
evil
« on: May 08, 2007, 05:02:13 PM »

Correct me if I am wrong but do I understand some references that Hitler, Hussein, etc. HAD to do the things they did? If I was understanding correctly, the general view regarding the evil that people do is caused by God? Unless, someone can clarify, I can say I don't agree. Each person, regardless of circumstances, has an agenda and reason to do what they do. The guy that killed the students at V.Tech didn't have a gun pointed at his head forcing him to kill. Hitler hated Jews so he killed them. Hussein wanted power and riches and did unspeakable evil to get what he wanted. None of this was God's divine will. It was just pure evil.
Seminole
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seminole

  • Guest
Re: evil
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2007, 05:30:44 PM »

Before anybody jumps me on this, I wanted to let you know I will go back and read what Ray has to say about this. Seminole
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: evil
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2007, 06:01:14 PM »

As I understand it...God PLANS for mankind to go against His Will.

Mankind likes to and wants to go against Gods Will because man is spiritually weak. This is Gods Plan for which God is responsible.

The Will of God is that mankind become like His Son who was not weak and neither did He ever go against the Will or Plan of God. In fact, Jesus Christ has been the first to please God and the first pre-eminant Son of God to perfectly represent the Father.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2007, 06:02:14 PM by Arcturus »
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skydreamers

  • Guest
Re: evil
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2007, 06:12:08 PM »

Hi Seminole,

I totally hear what you're saying.  When you begin to grasp an understanding of God's Sovereignty, these kind of questions inevitably come up.  It's seems beyond human reasoning why such evil must exist in the world, and is God ultimately responsible??

I'm still learning too, but so far, I think some of the things that I'm pretty sure of is that the evils perpetrated by some of these mass murderers etc. come from the heart of the man, and not from the heart of God.  It is man's heart that is desperately wicked.  (Jer 17:9) God does not take any pleasure in wicked deeds:

Jeremiah 32:35  And they built the high places of Baal, in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech; which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

However, God did create us as marred vessels, subject to the lusts of the flesh and I don't think he is surprised at anything man is capable of.  For this He takes responsibility.  I believe He foreknows every act that man will do in response to the circumstances he is given. 

So we must experience the knowledge of good and evil.  Now, at what  point at either end of the spectrum should there be restraint?  If we do not experience or see examples of the extreme evil man is capable of, do we then miss out on completely grasping an understanding or appreciation of the other end of the spectrum, extreme goodness (which we have yet to experience)?  It seems to me, that it is not in God's heart/mind that these extreme evil acts should be committed, but it is in God's great plan, and I trust that every detail is necessary for our ultimate understanding of what it means to be "like" God, created in His image, knowing both good and evil.   For though God is surely not evil in any way, nonetheless, He would have a complete understanding of everything that is opposite to Himself, and He likely requires us to have this same understanding, to become beings that will be like Him, part of His family. 

Understanding and knowing God is aionious (eternal) life....that would include being mature enough to understand both ends of the spectrum of the knowledge of good and evil.  By God's grace, we do not all have to commit extreme acts of evil to see the awful consequences.  He has left it to the vessels of dishonour to "teach" us these things by example.  I am so thankful I'm not some horrible monster capable of torturing children, but I'm humbled into acknowledging that had God orchestrated similar circumstances into my life, and appointed me to be a vessel of dishonor, I, too could have fallen prey to such extreme pulls of the dark flesh.

I am reading this book on how to understand the "strong-willed" child, in there the author gives examples of some child abuse cases he has come across....one example is given of a mother who takes a razor blade to her 4 year olds eyes, and now he is blind of course....this and other examples had me weeping for hours and crying out to God:  "Lord I just don't understand!!!"  As a mother I am appalled that people are capable of such things....

So at what point is it enough?  Only God knows.  But I also know he will not give us more than we can bear:

1 Corinthians 10:13  No temptation has taken you but what is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able, but with the temptation also will make a way to escape, so that you may be able to bear it.

May God give us all eyes and ears to see and understand God's great plan...for surely sometimes it certainly does feel like it is more than we can bear...

Peace to you,
Diana
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: evil
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2007, 06:28:41 PM »

Diana, that was beautiful.  Thank you.

I too cry out when I think of the atrocities and my heart breaks.
But do I not believe that He who IS Love, has WAY more love and compassion than I and maybe I don't know everything or can see everything as HE does?

 He has a great plan and when we are ALL in ALL, all things will be known and understood (even those awful moms)
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ciy

  • Guest
Re: evil
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2007, 08:09:59 PM »

It always amazes me when I can get my mind to grasp the truth that God did create evil, and he created it for his own good and therefore my own good.  There is a christian song that says "God is good...all the time..." and the bible tells us God is good.  So we have to realize that God is good even when he created evil He was good. 

I do not know the whole of it, but it is good to ponder on the verses about God hardening Pharoah's heart to cause the death of at least thousands of people.  All for this was done for us.  And then to think that before the foundation of the world God set in motion the most evil act one can imagine of his sinless Son being mutilated beyond recognition as a man according to Isaiah and then hung on a cross until He died.  Again, all of this for us.  It was impossible that these acts were not going to take place.  And they took place exactly like God meant for them to take place.

It is a fearsome thing to fall into the hands of a loving, living God, but I love it.  I wonder and I ponder but I know that God's thoughts are higher than my thoughts and His ways are not my ways and that is why when I come to the end of things all I can do is trust God because God is good all the time.

It is a great day.
CIY
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hebrewroots98

  • Guest
Re: evil
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2007, 08:22:52 PM »

Seminole,

"GOD MADE SOME VESSLES OF HONOR AND SOME FOR DISHONOR". :o
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