> General Discussions
Questions and Truth
Craig:
I've been associated with this forum as long as anyone except for Dennis. And in those years I can say that I've nearly seen it all. I know what happens when certain topics gets brought up and peoples reactions to certain happenings.
One thing that I see posted allot is the statement that nobody knows all the truths of God. With this I agree, but what about the truths they do know? The truth is the truth and we can see by all the denominations and religions that the majority has not a clue what the truth actually is. How much truth did Paul have? John?, did some of the scripture they brought out have only some truth?
I am not comparing Ray to Paul or John, and Ray will tell you he doesn't know all there is about scripture, but the parts that he writes he believes to be truth, inspired by God as taught by men such as Paul and John etc. Ray takes his search for the truth seriously and that is why he uses so much scripture and gives very little opinion. If you study Ray's writing and think he is in error then by all means email him or ask the question here. Unlike some would have you believe, questioning Ray's articles is allowed here. It is just the debating of the topic that is not allowed. And bringing your own teaching to a topic is not either, as we explain in the forum rules. (The mods don't have the time or talent ;) to determine if your opinion is right or wrong)
In my time moderating this forum, I doubt there has been more than 20 times that a thread has been outright deleted. That only happens when a thread is posted to do nothing but cause trouble on the forum. A poster is warned in a PM about a particular subject and they decide to go down in a blaze of glory. Some of the time a topic is moved to a holding area and the poster changes his/her mind about really wanting it posted or not.
Most times a thread is locked when questions are asked and scripture is given to support the question asked, and Ray's explanation of a topic is given. Then the person asking the questions will either not address the answers given or try and deflect the question entirely. In those times the thread is locked because the discussion is leading nowhere and we can agree to disagree. Look at past locked topics and see if that is not the case much of the time.
Even today I still can't believe the number of people who ask questions on the forum or answer a question and have not even read Ray's articles. How many times do we see this in Ray's emails? Ray, is often short with these people because he has answered that question many times in his articles.
Another thing I just don't get is those who say they can only be led by the spirit and that leading is were the truth is found. If that is true why is there so many denominations and teachers who all claim to be led by the spirit? There is only one truth, so when they disagree, what spirit is leading all of them? I think we need to be more like the Bereans who prayed and studied the Word for the answers. They also questioned but they used the Word for the final authority, and the spirit for discernment.
Now maybe some have found where they believe Ray is in error, nobody here can speak for Ray so if that is your opinion then debate it with Ray. Personally I have not found to much to disagree about on the topics of Ray's articles because the scripture bares witness to his writing. If there is a topic I don't agree on, then I don't bring it up here. Why?, Because there is a wealth of information we can grow with and agree upon.
Please folks feel free to ask the honest, trying to understand questions. But before you do at least read Ray's teachings first.
Blessings!
Craig
Bill:
--- Quote from: Craig on May 10, 2007, 10:24:26 AM ---I've been associated with this forum as long as anyone except for Dennis. And in those years I can say that I've nearly seen it all. I know what happens when certain topics gets brought up and peoples reactions to certain happenings.
One thing that I see posted allot is the statement that nobody knows all the truths of God. With this I agree, but what about the truths they do know? The truth is the truth and we can see by all the denominations and religions that the majority has not a clue what the truth actually is. How much truth did Paul have? John?, did some of the scripture they brought out have only some truth?
I am not comparing Ray to Paul or John, and Ray will tell you he doesn't know all there is about scripture, but the parts that he writes he believes to be truth, inspired by God as taught by men such as Paul and John etc. Ray takes his search for the truth seriously and that is why he uses so much scripture and gives very little opinion. If you study Ray's writing and think he is in error then by all means email him or ask the question here. Unlike some would have you believe, questioning Ray's articles is allowed here. It is just the debating of the topic that is not allowed. And bringing your own teaching to a topic is not either, as we explain in the forum rules. (The mods don't have the time or talent ;) to determine if your opinion is right or wrong)
In my time moderating this forum, I doubt there has been more than 20 times that a thread has been outright deleted. That only happens when a thread is posted to do nothing but cause trouble on the forum. A poster is warned in a PM about a particular subject and they decide to go down in a blaze of glory. Some of the time a topic is moved to a holding area and the poster changes his/her mind about really wanting it posted or not.
Most times a thread is locked when questions are asked and scripture is given to support the question asked, and Ray's explanation of a topic is given. Then the person asking the questions will either not address the answers given or try and deflect the question entirely. In those times the thread is locked because the discussion is leading nowhere and we can agree to disagree. Look at past locked topics and see if that is not the case much of the time.
Even today I still can't believe the number of people who ask questions on the forum or answer a question and have not even read Ray's articles. How many times do we see this in Ray's emails? Ray, is often short with these people because he has answered that question many times in his articles.
Another thing I just don't get is those who say they can only be led by the spirit and that leading is were the truth is found. If that is true why is there so many denominations and teachers who all claim to be led by the spirit? There is only one truth, so when they disagree, what spirit is leading all of them? I think we need to be more like the Bereans who prayed and studied the Word for the answers. They also questioned but they used the Word for the final authority, and the spirit for discernment.
Now maybe some have found where they believe Ray is in error, nobody here can speak for Ray so if that is your opinion then debate it with Ray. Personally I have not found to much to disagree about on the topics of Ray's articles because the scripture bares witness to his writing. If there is a topic I don't agree on, then I don't bring it up here. Why?, Because there is a wealth of information we can grow with and agree upon.
Please folks feel free to ask the honest, trying to understand questions. But before you do at least read Ray's teachings first.
Blessings!
Craig
--- End quote ---
Criag,
I know you guys have difficult roles as mods and I thank all of you for your efforts.
I am of the mind set that the Truth will always prevail and like to discuss a topic with both sides. I do remember when that was allowed here in a certain area and it allowed allot of growth for me personally. Especially seeing that the Truth always did come out on top. But as you and some others may know that was not the direction Ray wanted it to go. I have great respect for Ray and respect his decision to do so as it is because of his papers and his work that we have this site and forum. As Rays says if you do not like go start your own site.
Anyways with that said thanks for the post I know you guys reserve the right to take any action without explanation but it is still comforting to see the why some things are done and allow us to see the other side.
God Bless
Bill
mari_et_pere:
I think I may have offended some by commenting to a recent thread.......if so I humbly apologize because I never want to offend anyone, no matter what. I'd stand behind what I meant to say, but not behind anything offensive.
I guess I was caught off guard with some sort of "censorship" issue that stems from my upbringing. If the rules state we can't challenge Ray, then we/I must abide by that. If not then my only option is to leave, and I'd hate to do that because I was involved in this when it was still a Yahoo group. That's not to say I have any huge issues that would make me think about leaving the group. I'm not involved enough to make an impact even if I did leave LOL! This all isn't even to say that I actually disagree with Ray. I'm in perfect alignment with his teachings so far.
I guess I was offended because of the fact that it wasn't Ray that was being challenged. Far from it. It was simply a discussion about his teachings. Not the man himself. If we all got on here everyday and said "I agree with that." "Yes, met too," then what? We'd all agree to agree all the time. I enjoy the "what if's" and the "what about this or that's?" and the challenges and questions about Ray's teachings. But I digress. I only wanted to post this to apologize if anyone was offended, not to ramble. LOL
Matt
Kent:
I have been led down the wrong path so many times that I am hyper-vigilant to deception, because I know that the deceived does not know he is deceived until it is 1) too late, or 2) God reveals it.
How many other here have been deceived by false teachers? I bet 100% have been.
So, it's not that Rays teachings, that are really based on scripture, are being doubted or questioned, it's the lack of my undstanding that leads to these questions. The answers that are provided are true, IMO. I have yet to find anything that I really disagree with when it omes to freewill and hell topics. I thank God for the articles he took the time to research, write, and post.
Just because someone asks a question does not mean they have ulterior motives.
And the inability to ask questions is a hallmark of cults. Talk about a red flag to someone that has been deceived numerous times already...!
We're all adults here, we know when a question has been adequately answered using scripture and other legitimate references, and when the person that has been enlightened continues to be a problem. It is obvious.
YellowStone:
Matt,
I think there is a marked difference between a discerning question and accusatory remark.
I am sure the moderators will support this. No one said that questions are outlawed. :)
But please understand that a question is not always a question, not if is framed with hostility or an ulterior motive, evident by the thought pertaining to the question.
However, it is not hard to frame a question in order to determine the motive. For example: "Please forgive me, but this is all new to me and I am not sure if I get it. Hopefully God, with the help of some of you will help me understand, because I always believed this......"
Clearly the above example does not indicate that you are unwilling to learn, or that you wish to impose a different view. Of course it is useful knowing what you believe or were taught, I find it hard to believe that you believe something that at least someone here has never heard or believed before. :)
So Matt, ask away, but please always ask with an open heart and an open mind and be prepared to hear something you may never have before considered. Remember also, that some here may plant the seeds of truth, but only God can make it grow.
1Cr 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Cr 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
Love to you my brother,
Darren
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