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Author Topic: The Spirit Gives Life  (Read 6068 times)

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Kat

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The Spirit Gives Life
« on: May 15, 2007, 02:50:31 AM »


This is part of Ray paper 'The Sermon On The Mount is for You!'

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm ------------------

THE TIME HAS ALREADY COME FOR OUR JUDGMENT

"For the time is come that judgment must begin [this began two thousand years ago] at the House of God..." (I Pet. 4:17).

The JUDGMENT, COUNCIL, GEHENNA, AND PRISON (Matt. 5) of Christ's Sermon on the Mount are for US; Christ's disciples; those chosen; the faithful; the overcomers; the few; the elect. And these judgments are NOW in each generation of the chosen few throughout this Church age.


Many of these disciples were baptized already by John the Baptist. They heard John's prophetic words:

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, AND with fire" (Matt. 3:11).

Now Jesus is upon the Mount for the express purpose of selecting out of His many disciples, the twelve that will be His closest followers-His twelve Apostles. But He doesn't mention the Holy Spirit of God even one time in this Sermon on the Mount. And I am sure that they all but forgot about that other part John had prophesied about being "baptized... with FIRE." Jesus introduces the "fire" in His Sermon, but says nothing of this "Holy Spirit." They will see the need for both near the end of their training with Jesus, but none of them comprehended the need for Holy Spirit AND fire during their spiritual apprenticeship under the Master Teacher.


This whole Sermon on the Mount is Christ's teaching on how to live an exceedingly higher level of morality and righteousness than was taught before, and the accompanying Judgments if one does not live up to these standards.
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As I was reading this part of the article, I began to see a correlation between the disciples and the experience we go through in the church.
Many gets baptisted in the church, and this is the point in my life as a young adult to began a serious attemp to live for God. 
Many of the disciples were baptized by John the Baptist, then they were called by Jesus to follow Him.

In the church is where I was introduced to Him and learned quite a lot about who He was.  All those years in the church I spent trying to serve and obey Him.
Jesus Christ's disciples followed Him for over 3 years, being taught and trained by Him.

I was in the church for years, trying to be a good Christian.  Christ is showing us that we can not gain 'spiritual' understanding from the church, and the last few years in the church this realization was becoming quite clear.
The disciples were following Jesus and listening to His teachings for years too.  Were they able to stand on what Jesus Himself had taught them?

Mat 26:56  But all this happened that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples fled, forsaking Him.

I think at some point all of the chosen come to realize they can not do it on there on, you know you need something more and that is the Holy Spirit.  Maybe that is only fully realized after we have received the Spirit, but the difference is profound.


quote from paper ------------------------------------------

Jesus introduces the "fire" in His Sermon, but says nothing of this "Holy Spirit." They will see the need for both near the end of their training with Jesus, but none of them comprehended the need for Holy Spirit AND fire during their spiritual apprenticeship under the Master Teacher.

The problem was never with the Law, but with the people:

"O that there were such an HEART in them, that they would fear Me, and keep all My commandments always..." (Deut. 5:29).

The problem was never with God's Law, but with the peoples' heart-they were carnal, and when one is carnal, he cannot keep a "spiritual" law:

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:6-7).

And here is absolutely proof that there needed a change in the Covenant, not in the LAW OF THE COVENANT:

"For if that first covenant ['covenant,' not law] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For FINDING FAULT WITH THEM, He said, Behold, the days come, says the Lord, when I will make a NEW COVENANT [not a New Law] with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah... For this is the covenant that I will make... I will put my LAWS [same old laws-but new covenant] into their MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS..." (Heb. 8:7-9). 

There it is!

The New makes alive and ends in "eternal [eonian-immortal] LIFE."

"Who also has made us able ministers of the NEW Testament; not of the letter, but of the SPIRIT: for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives LIFE" (II Cor. 3:6). 

This along with the blood sacrifice of Jesus IS the New Covenant; the Gospel; the Kingdom of God.

The Old letter of the law was glorious, but the newly applied Spirit of the law does "much more exceed in glory" (II Cor. 3:9). The Old Covenant law was how God's people were judged under Moses: the New Covenant law is how God's chosen Elect will be judged under Jesus.
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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Robin

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Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2007, 03:17:29 AM »

That is just so perfect it makes me cry.

Thank you Kat.
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dogcombat

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Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2007, 10:50:16 AM »

Good post Kat,

I think the question becomes, as we mature in Christ, is: Which is expediant?  Witnessing to people about Jesus?  Or People witnessing Jesus in you?  As Paul mentioned in Phillipeans 1:

20 According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.

 21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

 22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

 23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:


Also with Paul telling us that "the law is spiritual",  we must crucify our beastliness within us.  So that Christ's light shines to those whom He will draw.

Ches
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hillsbororiver

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Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2007, 11:01:12 AM »

Hi Ches,

That was an excellent perspective on a great post by Kat!

Thanks all,

Joe
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2007, 11:38:25 AM »


Hi Ches,

I couldn't agree more  :)

1Tim 4:12  Let no one despise your youth, but be an example of the believers, in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

Th 1:5  For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.
v. 6  And you became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit,
v. 7  so that you became examples to all in Macedonia and Achaia who believe.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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skydreamers

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Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2007, 12:57:37 PM »

Hi Kat, great post!

Quote
I think at some point all of the chosen come to realize they can not do it on there on, you know you need something more and that is the Holy Spirit.  Maybe that is only fully realized after we have received the Spirit, but the difference is profound.
Quote
quote from paper ------------------------------------------

Jesus introduces the "fire" in His Sermon, but says nothing of this "Holy Spirit." They will see the need for both near the end of their training with Jesus, but none of them comprehended the need for Holy Spirit AND fire during their spiritual apprenticeship under the Master Teacher.

The problem was never with the Law, but with the people:

"O that there were such an HEART in them, that they would fear Me, and keep all My commandments always..." (Deut. 5:29).

The problem was never with God's Law, but with the peoples' heart-they were carnal, and when one is carnal, he cannot keep a "spiritual" law:

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:6-7).

Recently I had the opportunity to share some things with my brother.  He's at least beginning to question some things, but mostly he's still entrenched in church teaching.  He  told me grace is about God doing whatever part we are unable to do...so if we can only do 10%, God does the other 90%.  I've heard this preached before in several sermons.  It is so hard when you are in a church not to just parrot what you've been told by a pastor.  They tell you that you need the Holy Spirit to change, but at the same time you must do "something" to even "get" the Holy Spirit.

So while we are learning something about Jesus while in the Church, it strikes me that the most integral knowledge about Jesus is missing, or twisted.  And the struggle of trying to figure out what it is that you must do to know more, and be a "better Christian" is endless.  (I'm so excited (and jealous ;) ) for all of you who get to hear Ray talk about who is Jesus and where did he come from!...can't wait to hear the audios)

Thankfully I am out of the vicious cycle of having to figure out the Church's "square circles" and can now simply rest in God's Sovereignty. :)

Peace, Diana
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Kat

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Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2007, 11:49:54 AM »


Hi Diana,

Quote
So while we are learning something about Jesus while in the Church, it strikes me that the most integral knowledge about Jesus is missing, or twisted.  And the struggle of trying to figure out what it is that you must do to know more, and be a "better Christian" is endless. 

As I look back, now I can see how the church is blinded.  I was right there in the church blinded for many years too. 
But when Christ gives you eyes to see, it's like you had really poor eyesight all those years and He gave you spiritual glasses.  Now you can see things clearly, for the first time you can actually look at things(spiritual things) and see them and have knowledge of the truth.
But everybody else in the church haven't got their glasses yet, so even if you tell them, they can't make it out, it's just a blur.
One day everybody will be given sight and then all will have knowledge of the truth.
I love these scripture.

Isa 11:9  They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

Hab 2:14  For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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YellowStone

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Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2007, 12:23:34 PM »

Kat,

You make a very good point when you said:

But when Christ gives you eyes to see, it's like you had really poor eyesight all those years and He gave you spiritual glasses.  Now you can see things clearly, for the first time you can actually look at things(spiritual things) and see them and have knowledge of the truth.
But everybody else in the church haven't got their glasses yet, so even if you tell them, they can't make it out, it's just a blur.


I never bought into the whole hell, torture, rapture, instant anglehood upon death, etc theories of the church. Even, tithing was seen for what it was...a guilt trip if you gave less than the Jones. :)

So I guess I always had spiritual glasses. However, I think mine were blury, while the church had none. I say this because, I could see enough to "see" a lie, but I could not see enough to find truth anywhere! :(

I simply did not know what I was looking for, although I was sure I would know it the moment I "saw" it. Well of course, as I grew, my spiritual glasses became clearer and clearer. I could spot a spiritual fallacy a mile off. :)

But I still "thought" I was missing something; there was something I just could not see!

Then it hit me, I did not have to search for it "out there" but rather look inside myself; deep inside. The Spirit of Truth was already inside me; I suddenly realized that I was searching for something that wasn't lost. Only then did the spiritual glasses allow me to really begin to see. And even today, every day, they become clearer still.

Well it was a lonely walk with God, friends could not "see" what I was seeing; they couldn't believe what the Spirit allowed me to KNOW; actually they could only believe what they could not see or understand. They were "told" what to believe. :(

This is how it was with me, I would be intrested to hear how the story of the journey from darkeness to light was with others. :)

Thanks for your post,

Your brother in Christ,
Darren
« Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 12:25:18 PM by YellowStone »
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skydreamers

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Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2007, 03:55:58 PM »

Hey Kat, I like your analogy of the glasses...very cool 8)

Darren, I don't think I was like you being able to "see" a lie...there were times things didn't quite make sense to me, but I always thought it was because I hadn't studied it enough and so I just didn't "get it".  Fortunately, this is exactly what I began to do, study out the doctrines I was being taught, and scripturally I began to see things were not right with what I was being taught.  I was still fumbling through scripture though, not quite sure how to connect the dots, until I came across bibletruths.com and saw how Ray lays it out so succinctly.  Since then I am amazed at the seeming leaps and bounds I've made in "seeing" things less blurry....I know others have had that experience of reading the same scripture you've read many times before, but you still say..."why didn't I see that before???"  Very mysterious, the ways and means of how God keeps us blind until the right time...

Peace,
Diana
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2007, 05:43:26 PM »

Hello Darren

Darren

You comment : Then it hit me, I did not have to search for it "out there" but rather look inside myself; deep inside. The Spirit of Truth was already inside me;

 Do you mean that the Spirit of Truth entered you without you knowing it like when yet you were still a sinner looking "outside" your self the Spirit of Truth came in and you only found out later?

Peace to you

Arcturus  :)
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YellowStone

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Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2007, 06:33:43 PM »

Arcturus you ask:

Do you mean that the Spirit of Truth entered you without you knowing it like when yet you were still a sinner looking "outside" your self the Spirit of Truth came in and you only found out later?

I have spoken on this before and it was met with a certain amount of disbelief  :o

But as you ask, I will say it again. :)

I honestly do not know a time when I was not close to God ie the Spirit of Truth. Even as a child I could always feel if something was not right, I would always question everything and believe nothing that I was told. As my spiritual eyes began to mature, I began to really see the lies, but I could not find the truth. I believed in my heart of hearts (now I know it was the Spirit) that the truth was not complicated, that one did not need a doctrate or place large amounts of money on a plate in order to understand.

So yes :) although, I still see myself as a sinner (who isn't?), my spiritual eyes cleared to the point that I knew that the truth was in me and that  I did not need to fully understand it in order for it to be true. The truth felt true, the lies did not. Probably about 10 or so years ago, I stopped looking for the truth with my eyes, and began searching with my heart. This is when my life really began.

And this is why I hold so dearly to the following Scripture.

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because I could see God's hand in everything. Even in the bad, I could see and hear God talking; his spirit to my spirit. It was and still is wonderful. I can't remember the exact time I found BT. Wow, finaly I found someone in Ray who spoke the words I knew to be true. Everything that Ray has stated in everyone of his papers I knew to be true, bar two small things. :)

One was Jesus and Jehovah of the OT being the same. Knock me down and pick me up  ;D I had never considered that one before, but the instant I heard it, I knew it and I could give a numbe rof reasons why it HAD to be true. The Spirit of Truth within me, cemeneted it instantly.

The other was a little different. I think you and I debated it at the time. It was when Ray said that Adam ate the apple because he wanted to die with his wife, not because of greed. That one took a little longer, and I had to look at the Hebrew text to see it myself. :) Without Ray, I might never have 'got' that one.

I would never ever say that every truth within my reach from day one, on the contrary, I am still learning, being shown things on a daily basis. The journey has been wonderful, and I would not change a thing. :)

Does that make sense :)

Love to you and thanks for asking.

Your brother in Christ,
Darren
« Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 06:58:16 PM by YellowStone »
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gmik

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Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2007, 08:36:36 PM »

Diana, I had the questions and little nagging things going on in my journey, but like you, I assumed it must be ME.  I haven't studied like THEY have.  I don't pray like THEY do.  I don't do enough works, I don't have enough love...THEY know more than I do...yada yada...

Thank God he has provided me w/ glasses.  I don't know why me and not someone else. Certainly not anything I ever did or didn't do- just his Grace.  So I want to have patience w/ those who haven't gotten their glasses yet..there but for the Grace of God go I.....
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2007, 03:05:35 AM »

Darren

That is an important point. You observe : I still see myself as a sinner (who isn't?),....We are all still sinners in the sense that we all continue to be weak infirm and are liable to the assaults of temptations. Ref Heb 4:15 or why else would we have need of a High Priest Who is able to understand and have a shared feeling with our weaknessess and infirmities and liability to the asaults of temptation, but One Who has been tempted in every respect as we are, yet without sinning.

 I think part of our fellowship is the unity in understanding that we are dependent on Christ for our Deliverance. Not some so called Deliverance methodology as practised in Mystery Babylon. Not that kind of Deliverance BUT the deliverance that comes from judgment and resurrection to reward or to correction. THAT kind of Deliverance.  ;D :D 

Of course we know and accept that non are born again or saved in this life time. Election is a process of cross carrying for we enter the Kingdom through many troubles.

I think it fits to quote this Scripture.

Mark 4 : 22 Things are hidden temporarily only as a means to revelation. For there is nothing hidden except to be revealed, nor is anything kept secret except in order that it may be made known. 23. If any man has ears to hear, let him be listening and let him perceive and comprehend. (Knowing of course that understanding comes ONLY from HIS SPIRIT because of HIS Sovereignty and that it is HE who chooses who will be HIS Elect and that non can approach or choose HIM unless He chooses us first because He is the Creator and Author and Finisher of our Faith. ! 8) ;D )

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 03:10:29 AM by Arcturus »
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skydreamers

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Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2007, 03:09:23 PM »

Quote
Diana, I had the questions and little nagging things going on in my journey, but like you, I assumed it must be ME.  I haven't studied like THEY have.  I don't pray like THEY do.  I don't do enough works, I don't have enough love...THEY know more than I do...yada yada...

Thank God he has provided me w/ glasses.  I don't know why me and not someone else. Certainly not anything I ever did or didn't do- just his Grace.  So I want to have patience w/ those who haven't gotten their glasses yet..there but for the Grace of God go I.....

Hi Gena,

Yup, sounds like you and me felt very much the same!  To this day I still think, "God, why me?  Why did you show me this stuff?"  I just keep praying that He will see fit to change me enough inside where I can get to that point where "sin will no longer have dominion over me".  Patience, patience, patience....please give me some patience! :)

Peace,
Diana
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: The Spirit Gives Life
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2007, 08:59:22 PM »


Here is a bit more about the Spirit that gives us life.

When our eyes are opened we are given the Holy Spirit, to give us understanding of the truth.

John 14:26  But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

By this Spirit we also have Christ indwelling.

Col 1:27  to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

And the Father is also indwelling.

John 14:23  Jesus answered and said to him, If a man loves Me, he will keep My Word. And My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

So Jesus and the Father are One and the spirit of God and the spirit of Christ are the same spirit, the Holy Spirit which comes into us.

Here is a part of Ray's article on the trinity, where he explains this.

http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html ---------------------

From The Concordant Literal New Testament:

John 14:16-18, "And I shall be asking the Father, and He will be giving you another consoler, that it, indeed, may be with you for the eon--the spirit of truth, which the world can not get, for it is not beholding it, neither is knowing it. Yet you know it, for it is remaining with you and will be in you. I will not leave you bereaved; I am COMING TO YOU."

In this section of Scripture, Philip, Thomas, Peter, and Judas (and possibly all the Apostles) did not quite understand what Christ was teaching them. They especially didn’t understand how that Jesus was going away and that were He was going they could not come, but that it was necessary for Him to go away to His Father, or He could not send them the comforter or consoler.

Jesus was assuredly "the spirit of truth" of which He spoke. And as such Jesus was with the disciples. But now He is telling them that when He leaves them to be with the Father, He will come back to them, only this time He will not just be with them, but He will be IN them! The spirit of truth was with the apostles in the person of Jesus Christ, but He told them that after He left to be with the Father that this same spirit of truth would be in them. This is all done by "spirit," the spirit of God.

Notice verse 26 of John 14:

"Now the consoler, THE HOLY SPIRIT, which the Father will be sending in MY NAME..."

And see how this is done, verse 23:

"If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and WE shall be coming to him and making OUR abode with him.

This is done through the consoler, the comforter, the spirit of truth, THE HOLY SPIRIT of God! Jesus said He would not leave them "comfortless" (Ver. 18), so for sure Jesus must return to His followers to "comfort" them. This He did and still does by the "spirit of God" which God gave to His son Jesus and which the Father then turns around and gives FROM that very same spirit in Christ TO US! The following Scripture make this plain:

"All things that the Father hath are mine [all things include the holy spirit]: therefore said I, that He shall take of Mine [that is, of the spirit that His Father gave to Him], and shall shew it UNTO YOU" (John 16:15).

Everything that God the Father gave to His son Christ Jesus, He is going to GIVE TO US! And this includes being His CHILDREN.

"Now when the full time came, God delegates His Son, come of a woman, come under law, that He should be reclaiming those under law that WE may be getting the place of a SON. Now, seeing that you are SONS, God delegates the spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, ‘Abba! FATHER!’ So that you are no longer a slave, but a SON. Now if a SON, an enjoyer also of an allotment from God, through Christ" (Gal. 4:6-7).

God almighty will be the same "Abba FATHER" to us, as He was also "Abba FATHER" to our Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 14:36). Did you catch that it is the "...spirit OF His [the Father’s] Son..." That comes into our hearts. It is NOT the "the holy spirit which is supposedly the third person of the trinity" that comes into our hearts, but Christ’s spirit. The spirit of God and the spirit of Christ are the same spirit and it is THEIR spirit not a third person (God) of a trinity!

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mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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