Newbie South Africa

[berniekruger]

Hi All

Names Bernie and I discovered this site Sunday.  I am unemployed at present and have been going through some tough times questioning why "God has abandoned me etc." as it seems everything I try to do to get out of the pit I am in does not seem to work.

I used to be a BIG "thither" and found the site through something like "Tithing is scriptural.."

Been communicating with a friend who gave me many links viz apologetics and I explored them all and even placed posts in "defence" of Ray (See below)

I have already sent 2 mails to Ray but see they ave not been posted (must have been too long)

Having time on my hands I started reading the papers and while I agree with most of Ray's opinions find some articles like "the beast within" difficult to grasp.  I am reading up daily and still need to form an opinion so far I am not offended by what I read except for those who blatantly attack from a tainted belief system without substantial scriptural back-up

Below my two posts

Luv to all

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=5120169&postID=112324664550746971

Anonymous said
try finding a TRUE minister of God and actually doing the work

Please define TRUE. Based on what supposition? or what theology?

The only true minister is the Holy Spirit. Remember Jesus's teaching about calling one Rabbi, Teacher etc. and end off you have but one teacher....? cant quote Ch & Vs but is in Matt somewhere.

I think Ray has the guts to refute incorrect teachings based on the word and addresses issues normally avoided by mainstream clergy. It's been enlightening to read his articles, I do not necessarily agree with everything he says, but much of what he writes makes sense.

The fact that he claims to have no formal theology training makes him better qualified than most Theologians who must have attended some seminary of sorts and if those teachings there were tainted, the untruth continues on??? Most just teach what they were taught!

What if everything we were taught was wrong? Not saying it was! Here is just another view/revelation. Who are we to just denounce it outright. The bible clearly tells us to test teachings by the Word.

The Trinity issue is not important to me whether they are One Person or Three Persons. (I still have not read his article on this)

Fact is Jesus sits at the right hand of God and Jesus prayed to his Father in Heaven doesn't really matter. Jesus is the appropriation for our sin, not the Father and not the Holy Spirit. Who do you pray to Jesus, Father, Holy Spirit?

Ray acknowledges that Jesus is the name by whom ALL should be saved, can't see that being contradicting the Word or him being demon possessed, Jesus states no man can come to the Father but by Me and again no-one can come to Jesus except the Father draws him (Paraphrasing)

What about all those who died never hearing the name of Jesus? The world is bigger than just the USA. What about China, Iran, Pakistan Afghanistan and many more countries where you can be killed for just trying to preach Christianity?

Are all these doomed to an eternal Barbecue? I don't think so!

If they are, then there must be another path to Heaven we do not know about? That means all paths lead to Rome therefore all religions lead to God, sounds a bit "New Age", NWO, One World Church etc. to me

Nowhere does Ray imply that you can just do your thing if you have already heard the Good News.

HIs free-will views are interesting. His analogy of Paul on the road to Damascus illustrates this well.

It's not by works but by Grace lest any man should boast, guess that levelled the playing fields.

And we wonder why so many reject Christianity; an "un-saved" friend once said to me, he cannot see any difference between US and him so why bother, his dad was a lay preacher. Makes you wonder?

We are too much in each others face about what each of us believe, in James it states we should each work out our own salvation with fear and trembling yet we purport only confusion and division to others in the world.

Maybe we need to go through fires of purging, I certainly cannot claim I have led an exemplary Christian life, can you?

We all fall short of the mark, that's why Jesus had to die for us. The focus should be on Jesus and His saving grace not our belief models.

Jesus taught about the Father, told us of the comforter, (Holy Spirit) but only in some translations does it appear like this

Passage 1 John 5:7:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (remember the Word became flesh so in my mind that is Jesus the Son)

Once a cell leader checked this passage in my bible to see if I had the right translation but could never tell me why, the last part
and these three are one. does not appear in all translations or so I'm told.

Like I said earlier, the trinity is not really an issue to me! Jesus is, Father is and Comforter are equally important whether they are three or one. Or am I supposed to believe all 3 are 1, if so, pray tell me why?

If I only believed in 2 of the three, then maybe someone could have an argument?

I have biblcal and belief opinions that were in part shaped by the Holy Spirit and the council of men. The Holy Spirit bit still works for me but the latter does not.

and
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=7240

I came across his site 3 days ago.

His articles are long winded but it appears he is trying to present all his evidence and thinking. I initially thought the angle was born out of bitterness, which we all harbour from time to time but the more I read, the more I see someone just presenting an opinion.

Reading many e-mails sent, no-one seems to take up his challenge and prove him wrong with proof or alternative evidence.

I am still reviewing and at this point I see a thoroughness that I never before was exposed to. I do not think he is trying to force his opinion down anyone's throat and mentions in some of his articles he does not hate any Christians but highlights errors in teachings.

I do not agree with everything he says but then i have not read all his papers so my opinion remains one of open mindedness. Probably the thing that really attracted me to investigate more was his bit on Tithing. Having been a big giver in the past but being out of fellowship for 2 years and my current down situation where is the blessing etc?

I also share his views on TBN, most USA televangelists appear to me no different than infomecials with a Christian twist. I mean JduP wanting a new jet, I have never seen footage of his ministry in other countries, B Hinn on the other hand this appears justified, he is humble and never takes the credit.

Relationship with God is what is important and probably what has been lacking in my life lately, if this is God's way to get me closer then Hoorah! We do not know his relationship with God but it sure looks like he is on a quest for the truth, so am I.

Having been defiled by church doctrines and traditions, (I used to be a Praise & Worship Leader) I find it difficult to relate to today's "church"

In my early days I punched the turn-or-burn doomsday message to friends and colleagues. One day the Holy Spirit told me that I should also speak of God's Love. Amazing what a difference it makes when someone realises, Jesus takes you just as you are, I mean that's True Love isn't it?

If we look at Jesus' ministry, it was in the trenches, caring for the lost, sick and needy, many Christians with the advent of prosperity teachings have fallen into a "Bless-me" club. There has to be more than just getting saved?

Surely, if he is wrong, which I do not think is the case; then shouldn't correction with love be applied as opposed to what is really non-Christian verbal abuse from so-called Christians seen on his forum or prayer that his eyes be opened, gets a revelation from God etc?

I am still trying to get to grips with his version on the beast and beast within in the Hell-fire series where we all need to go through a falling away as part of the growth process, never saw this viewpoint before but it sounds plausible

Still searching (PS I became born-again in 1991)

Well that's my 2c worth

[Kat]

Hi berniekruger,

I am glad you have come here to discuss what you are learning at BT 
If you have just started reading the articles there last Sunday, then you are moving along rather well. 
Some of the concepts are very difficult to gain a comprehension of, like the beast within and no free will.  It seems that it takes time meditating on these things, before we can grasp them.  And it is only possible to understand at all, if our eyes are being opened.
Your feeling of being abandoned, may very well be God's way of showing you that the church was not the answer.  The church does get us started in our journey to Christ, but we all fall away, because the church is not enough.  When the Holy Spirit comes and the light goes on inside, and the difference is night and day.  You will know Christ has called you out, but learning the Truth has just begun, so keep reading 

I pray that God will help your understanding.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[skydreamers]

Hi Bernie!

Looking forward to your posts and further comments on what you have learned from Ray.  I've been reading his stuff for quite some time now and still find that the learning doesn't end.  What Ray has posted has taken him years of study and prayer, so I can't imagine any of us being able to absorb it all in a short time.   Welcome to our group of truth seekers

Peace,
Diana

[CDJ]

Howzit Bernie,

Welcome at BT  I've been reading the material on BT since Jan/Feb this year, and can't stop. You're going to see how your own personal biblestudy improves with leaps and bounds. Ray's way of teaching, helps us little men on the ground understand God's Word better than any theologian out there - they just argue all the time anyway - here I have only found like-minded people sharing and learning together, in one Spirit.

Stay humble and keep on praying.

Walk strong in Christ

Carl

[Redbird]

Hi Bernie,

Welcome to the forum.

Lisa

[iris]

Hello Bernie,

Welcome to the forum!
Looking forward to hearing more from you.


Iris

[andrevan]

A warm welcome to you Bernie. I'm still reading over Ray's material, as there is a lot to digest, so chew slowly, you're eating meat here, not sipping on the flavored milk of Christendom anymore  . Enjoy the forum & the journey to truth.

God's peace to you.
Andrevan.

[gmik]

HMMMM.....I thought I had said hello, but guess not.  Welcome, Welcome to the best forum around!!!!

There are a few from South Africa.  We are from all over.  I love that!

God Bless & join in.

Diana, I love all your "Welcomes" to Newbies!!!

[Dennis Vogel]

Welcome:!

I have already sent 2 mails to Ray but see they ave not been posted (must have been too long)

Very few of Ray's emails get posted these days.

Dennis

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Bernie

Welcome to the Forum. I too am in South Africa but it really doesn't matter from which mountain or continent we worship from. We are scattered as Gena says, all over the world!

Peace to you

Arcturus