Should Christians get rich off of teaching / preaching the truths of God ?

[mrsnacks]

I was very relieved and pleased that Ray's ministry wasn't a money making venture as most every ministry out there. He stated that he and his staff aren't on a salary. It is all volunteer.There are plenty of ministires charging a good sum of money for tapes or Cd's on various subjects.

They sell books and newsletters and then on top of it asking for contributions. I was so hungry for it in the past I spent a ton of money. Now I have gotten more out of this site and tentmakers and others and haven't spent hardly anything.

I don't think it is wrong for charging for a book or cd but I have a problem with ministries that take in so much money that the teachers are rich off of it. I did some research and was shocked to hear what some of these ministers made and what they owned. What are your thoughts ?

[John9362]

My thoughts are:

This forum is primarily a place for people of a like mind to fellowship, and secondarily to discuss and question what they learn on bible-truths.com. 

John9362

[CDJ]

I agree John - 100%

Theologians do the groundwork and distribute their works (Bibles, books, commentaries, etc, etc, etc...), for their own acknowledgment - some of it is available to us via the internet. Most is free. God provides for us...

:-)

[Chris R]

Hello,

Mr. snacks brings up a valid question.

Yes it is true the website address is www.bibletruths.com However the Title to this website is "Exposing Those Who Contradict"

Yes, we are to expose those who would fleece the pockets of the widow, or the fatherless, the stranger, or the poor.

Paul and Jan Crouch of TBN purchased a house for 5,000,000.00 Yes..thats five Million dollars. There are others who purchase jets for 10,000,000.00
The prosperity gospel need to be exposed, unless we think that the poor widows pennys should be spent on this lavish style of living.

I'm sure God is not pleased with how these monies were spent. There is not one teaching in the entire Gospel that speaks of gaining large amounts of cash, to live lives of luxary for these ministers, in fact the Gospel teaches the exact opposite.

I for one believe this contradiction should be exposed.

I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.  Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. Act 20:33-34

Paul not only worked for his own necessities, but those that were with him!
Paul who taught in all of Asia..collected...ZERO for himself!



Peace

Chris R

[Deborah-Leigh]

Mrsnacks

You say:

I have gotten more out of this site and tentmakers and others

I too have looked at "tentmakers (that has highly commercialised the Word of God) and others" but I would not put them into the same category let alone in the same breath or sentence with Bible Truths.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[mari_et_pere]

Here's something interesting I just thought of. It'll shed some light on this possibly. These "evangelists?" who are making multi-millions off their version of the gospel, are any single one of them preaching the right one? I've never seen ANY of them speak the truth as we know it. None of them do!
Sad that perveyors of filth (that's what they are!) are getting rich while decent people (that's me and you, folks) won't get anywhere near what they get. That's wrong! However! I'll still be thankful for what I have, and rest easy at night knowing that I'm in the right, and you should too. Don't sweat it, it's in God's hands!

Matt

[Craig]

I was very relieved and pleased that Ray's ministry wasn't a money making venture as most every ministry out there. He stated that he and his staff aren't on a salary. It is all volunteer.There are plenty of ministires charging a good sum of money

You mean we could have been charging all this time?   Jeesh, now you tell me.

Always the last to know

Craig

[blakparty]

This is what the Word of God says on this matter: 2 Corinthians 2:17 (New International Version) " Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God."
Our God knows everything as Paul was instructed to right this.  God knew that this was going to happen and He told Paul that this was going to happen.  They will be judged for this. 

[hillsbororiver]

These verses come to mind;

1Ti 3:3  Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

1Ti 3:8  Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Tit 1:7  For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self-willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Tit 1:11  Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

1Pe 5:2  Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

Some historic background and definition of the word "lucre" in the Tyndale & King James Version(s);

  Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
lu·cre      /ˈlukər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[loo-ker] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun monetary reward or gain; money. 


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[Origin: 1350–1400; ME < L lucrum profit; akin to OE léan reward, G Lohn, Goth, ON laun]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source lu·cre       (lōō'kər)  Pronunciation Key 
n.   Money or profits.


[Middle English, from Latin lucrum; see lau- in Indo-European roots.]


Word History: When William Tyndale translated aiskhron kerdos, "shameful gain" (Titus 1:11), as filthy lucre in his edition of the Bible, he was tarring the word lucre for the rest of its existence. But we cannot lay the pejorative sense of lucre completely at Tyndale's door. He was merely a link, albeit a strong one, in a process that had begun long before with respect to the ancestor of our word, the Latin word lucrum, "material gain, profit." This process was probably controlled by the inevitable conjunction of profit, especially monetary profit, with evils such as greed. In Latin lucrum also meant "avarice," and in Middle English lucre, besides meaning "monetary gain, profit," meant "illicit gain." Furthermore, many of the contexts in which the neutral sense of the word appeared were not wholly neutral, as in "It is a wofull thyng . . . ffor lucre of goode . . . A man to fals his othe [it is a sad thing for a man to betray his oath for monetary gain]." Tyndale thus merely helped the process along when he gave us the phrase filthy lucre.

noun
1.  informal terms for money [syn: boodle] 
2.  the excess of revenues over outlays in a given period of time (including depreciation and other non-cash expenses) [syn: net income] 

His Peace to you,

Joe

[YellowStone]

......Paul and Jan Crouch of TBN purchased a house for 5,000,000.00 Yes..thats five Million dollars. There are others who purchase jets for 10,000,000.00

The prosperity gospel need to be exposed, unless we think that the poor widows pennys should be spent on this lavish style of living.......

Peace

Chris R

Chris, the really sad thing here is that it is not these people who are "fleecing" the innocent, it is instead the "so called" innocent in search of salvation the easy way. In short, they willingly choose to buy their salvation, and their pridefully blinded eyes prevent them from seeing (with the help of God) that the "money" is turned into an idol of the givers of (un) truth.

Who are the "innocents" worshiping?

Rom 1:25  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

If only they could see.....all in God's time, all in time.

The gulf between Truth and Deception is vast, is it any wonder they have no idea what truth is?

Love in Christ,
Darren

[Bill]

No taxes on $4M parsonage



A Redford Township church that believes wealth is God's reward is raising eyebrows for buying its pastor a $3.65 million mansion and taking it off the tax rolls.

Prosperity Gospel
Prosperity theology -- also known as health and wealth -- has its supporters and detractors, both of whom point to the Bible to make their case:

# Deuteronomy 8:18: God "giveth thee powers to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant for he sware unto thy fathers."
# Mark 11:24 -- "Therefore I say unto you, what things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them."
# John 10:10 -- "Then Jesus said ... I have come so that they (His disciples) may have life, and have it more abundantly."

[gmik]

Bill, that was in the news alot.  And all the letters to the editor went on for days.  Are you in the Detroit area??  Most writers were shocked that this pastor had no problem w/ taking this house!  He is one of MANY "pastors" who have no problem w/ having wealth.  Gee, what could get done for the poverty in Detroit w/ 4 million?  Heck, ok have a nice, oh 500 thousand dollar house and use 3.5 mill to help the needy!!! Unbelievable.

[Bill]

Bill, that was in the news alot.  And all the letters to the editor went on for days.  Are you in the Detroit area??  Most writers were shocked that this pastor had no problem w/ taking this house!  He is one of MANY "pastors" who have no problem w/ having wealth.  Gee, what could get done for the poverty in Detroit w/ 4 million?  Heck, ok have a nice, oh 500 thousand dollar house and use 3.5 mill to help the needy!!! Unbelievable.

Hi Gina,

Sadly this thought is in many of the big mega churches these days.  They believe there god will bless them with worldly possessions.

No I am from the west side near GR.

God Bless

Bill

[mrsnacks]

Well I know the prosperity teachers will use Solomon and others as examples. Solomon was very rich blessed with wisdom and riches from God. Job was a wealthy man. So was David, Abraham and other men of God in the Bible. So why not them ?

I think we all basically live much better than the kings and rulers of the past. God has brought us into the world of high technology. We are blessed to have a fridge, stove, air conditioning, heater, cars, showers with hot running water, restaurants, Disneyland,Dairy Queen,  the movies, Fed Ex, and most off all -- bathrooms. 

[hillsbororiver]

Heb 8:6  But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Old Covenant  = Physical     The rich (in worldly goods) old timers who inherit judgement

New Covenant = Spiritual     The rich in Spirit who inherit His Kingdom as firstfruits

Ray touches on this in a few of his papers, I will get the links later. I am presently pressed for time.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

I did have time for 1 after all......

"These ALL DIED IN FAITH, NOT HAVING RECEIVED THE PROMISES... For they that say such things declare plainly that they SEEK a country... they DESIRE a better country, that is a HEAVENLY... And ALL THESE, having obtained a good report through faith, [here comes the second witness that they are dead and not in heaven]... RECEIVED NOT THE PROMISE: God having provided something better thing FOR US, that THEY without US should NOT BE MADE [future tense, not past tense—it hasn't happened YET] perfect" (Verses 13-14, 16, 39-40).

WOW!

I would venture to say that not a thousand people alive on earth today have ever seen or had the above Scripture explained to them. Yet this Scripture is in perfect harmony with ALL other Scripture, but TOTALLY CONTRADICTS ALL CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE.

ALL of the men and women of faith, the fathers, the patriarchs, and prophets are DEAD.

ALL of them died "looking for a country & home afar off," which they never received.

ALL these received a "good report," but they received NO PROMISES.

ALL these "desired a heavenly" home, but they NEVER RECEIVED IT.

ALL these will remain dead until WE are given OUR promises.

OUR promise is better: "God having provided some BETTER THING FOR US."

WE are to become "perfect" Col. 4:12; Eph. 4:13; Gal. 3:3; Phil. 3:15; Col. 1:28; etc,

WE are to become "perfect" BEFORE the saints of old; BEFORE Moses & Elijah.

THEY are not only made perfect AFTER us, but are made perfect THROUGH US!

Not even John the Baptist is as great as the very least in the Kingdom of God (Matt. 11:11).

Grace was not given to save the saints of old. Grace came by JESUS CHRIST, not by Moses, neither to nor for Moses (John 1:17). Hebrews 11, speaking of ALL the saints that were before us clearly declares that, " for they without [Gk: 'apart from'] US should NOT be made perfect [or 'complete'].

Hebrews was written at least a whole generation after the crucifixion and resurrection of our Lord, and at that time the saints of old had not yet received their promises, so guess what? They are all still dead in their graves awaiting the Second Resurrection, as they cannot be made perfect or complete except though those who come up in the First resurrection. And no one is ever made "complete" except through Jesus Christ (Col. 2:10).

Have you not read:

"Unto whom it was revealed, that NOT unto themselves, but unto US ['Now ALL these things happened unto them for examples, and they are written for OUR admonition, upon whom the ends of the eons are come' I Cor. 10:11] they did minister the things, which are now reported unto YOU by them that have preached the gospel unto YOU with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. Wherefore gird up the loins of YOUR mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the GRACE that is to be brought unto YOU [not 'them'—they DIED not receiving the promises made to them] at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:12-13).

Jesus Christ is the "wave sheaf" and the "firstfruit," but the saints and patriarchs of old were not "firstfruits" at all. Jesus, not they, was the FIRST of the firstfruitst" (I Cor. 15:20& 23), and WE, not they, are also "firstfruits" (James 1:18 & Rev. 14:4). When will we believe the Scriptures? The FIRST to be called will be the LAST TO BE SAVED, and the LAST to be called will be the FIRST TO BE SAVED (Matt. 19:30 and 20:16). My, what we can learn when we begin to obey the commandments of GOD.

All Scripture is inspired, and all Scripture is true, but no one Scripture fully explains and interprets itself. Remember that should someone wants to show you from "a" single Scripture that there is no end to the lake of fire, for example.

This is # 9 from;  http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

His Peace to you,

Joe