I couldn't beleive he said it

[jackson]

Just thought I'd share something I heard this weekend that really shocked me.

I was in a Presbyterian church Sunday (long story) where I heard the pastor teach one of the most heretical sermons I've ever heard.  What was even more supprising was as I looked around the congrigation there was no one else even remotely bothered by his assertions. I thought at first that "surely I heard him wrong", but as he continued it was affirmed that my ears were working quite well(apparently much better than everyone else's).

He began by talking about the time Jesus healed the lame man by the pool (John 5:1-15) and it was all rainbows and butterflies until he said that "we needed to come to an understanding with God about our salvation...that a compromise had to take place".  What !?  And here all this time I thought it was God alone who chose the who, when and where of salvation.  Just imagine my suprise to learn how wrong I was .

But wait, that's not all, he went from subtle heresy to blatent blasphemy. He continued by saying,"there were times that Jesus was POWERLESS to help because the people DID NOT WANT His help".  He said that he could back this up with Scripture but failed to give chapter and verse.  Well I was floored by this.  Even with all the faults of the church in mind I still assumed they believed in God's total sovereignty.  Guess I was wrong again (second time in one day ).

After the sevice I spoke to some of my friends that were there about what was said.  They either seemed to have no idea what I was talking about or avoided the subject like the plague.  This made me very sad:'(.  So many lost sheep, so many false teachings.  I certainly don't have all the answers(I don't even know all the questions) but I do know that what I heard Sunday was wrong and irresponsible.

In His Grace,
Jackson

[YellowStone]

Jackson,

A very sad but inspiring story, just the same.

Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.  

What was Christ refering to here? Truth or Fallacy?

Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 

Like I said earlier, the chasm between truth and deception is getting wider and wider everyday.

Mat 13:16  But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Great post,

Love in Christ,
Darren

[hillsbororiver]

When Jesus returned to His hometown He uttered these Words in regard to the unbelief He encountered. Although I believe this preacher you speak of overstated what transpired there was a small semblence of the reality.

Mat 13:54  And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?

Mat 13:55  Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon and Judas?

Mat 13:56  And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

Mat 13:57  And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Mat 13:58  And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

But He was hardly "powerless."

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[YellowStone]

Joe, great response.

It's really something when their blindness prevents them from seeing and understanding simple words. Words that a 4th grader could understand with ease. 

I at least find this amusing....is that wrong? 

Your brother in Christ,
Darren

[jackson]

Joe, thanks for the info.  I see now where he was coming from.  It doesn't make him any less wrong though.

Jesus did few miracles in his hometown "because of their unbelief".  This everyone agrees upon.  But why?  Certainly the peoples unbelief was not more powerful than Jesus's divenity.  No, me thinks what the preacher failed to understand was that the same Hand that does miracles also passes out the unbelief.  It may be otherwise stated that Jesus refused to do many miracles in His hometown because He had predetermined to harden the peoples hearts.

That smells pretty powerful to me.

In His Grace,
Jackson

[Deborah-Leigh]

That was a great observation Jackson!

All the more reason to revere God which is something alien to the Churches. They do not know HIM! They imagine Him in their images.

Your post caused me to reconsider that Jesus chose not to speak to the multitudes except in Parables so they would not understand HIM. That truth is a HUGE barrier to the heathen pagan blind and deaf guides of wolverine pacts.  and a sure fire trigger of their persecution to those who do not belong in their fold.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[gmik]

Good thoughts everyone.

In a perverse sort of way, I kinda like hearing a 'sermon' so that I can correctly divide the word of truth and see how far I have come "out of her".

This weekend we attended a wedding, and I barely could endure sitting there listening to their "pious platitudes" about a 'Jesus' that is getting really foreign to me. I feel sorry for those folks listening and lapping it all up.  I was that way just a couple years ago!!!   Thank you Jesus--nothing I did-All You!!!

[Jackie Lee]

Yes once in a while I watch Grant Jeffries, I think that his name.
There are some truths mixed with opinions,  I am still new but I do the same Gena.
When thay speak of burning in Hell like J Van Impe does that really burns me up...LOL Pun intended.

[mari_et_pere]

I had an experience in church this week too. My wife wanted me to go to church with her for Mother's Day. She knows I disagree with a lot of what they say, but I complied because I love her and it was mother's day, you know? Well they have a study group before the main service. It went okay, typical sunday school study group, until the very end. The pastor's dad/ex-pastor was talking about God's foreknowledge; the fact that He already knows what will happen before it does and how He always has known. But then in the same breath he made sure to say, "Now I'm not talking about predistination or lack of free will." He lost me right there, and I wanted to pipe up and say something, but I knew it would cause a small scene plus make my wife's mother's day go bad, so I just ate my complimentary church doughnut and sat through the main service listening to the pastors mom/ex-pastor's wife talk about bla bla blahbitty blah.....then she said something about raising your kids the right way SO THEY WON'T GO TO HELL blah blah blah..........I'm so glad I finally talked myself out of attending church anymore. Thank God for allowing us the knowledge of the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Matt

[nmendes]

I myself have shown a lot of disinterest in going to church nowadays.  Ever since I have read a lot of Ray Smith's papers, read my Bible and prayed the doctrines of the church no longer interest me.  So much of what is taught out there is not scriptural.  There is too much falsities mixed in with truth.  Christiandom today has become a money making venture.  It is a high retail business that is getting bigger and bigger each year.  The den of theives has grown tremendously.  I am very thankful that God has opened up my eyes.  I pray that each one of us will continue in His Word and forever stay in the confines of His will for our lives.

Peace and blessings to all.

Love
Nicole.

[skydreamers]

Matt, you crack me up!   Bless your heart though for keeping silent because you did not want to ruin your wife's day...I think the love of Jesus shines through in your love and respect for your wife.  Very cool!

Peace,
Diana

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Matt

You say  : I'm so glad I finally talked myself out of attending church anymore.

I had to chuckle at that one! You did not talk your way out, HE MADE A WAY OUT because had HE wanted you to stay there you would not have been able to talk your way out of NOTHING!...

Rev 3 : 8 I know your works: behold I have set before you an open door, and no man can shut it...

Peace to you

Arcturus

[mari_et_pere]

I had to chuckle at that one! You did not talk your way out, HE MADE A WAY OUT because had HE wanted you to stay there you would not have been able to talk your way out of NOTHING!..

LOL that's so true Arcturus!!!!! I guess in a way I've never thought of it that way for some reason. I didn't quit going on my own, He had me quit going! That's so good. I guess given my long history with church and what I'll call the "christian establishment", I feel like I'm rebelling against something. Kind of like a hippy ya know? But you're darn right, it's not me at all! It's just God calling me out.

And Diana, I appreciate that you can sense the love and respect that I hold for my wife. Thank you so much!

Matt