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Just a Thought

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aktikt:

--- Quote ---Beth,
LOL! I know exactly what you mean! At the same time, when I think of how misled people are, some of them being all of my closest loved ones, it makes me very sad. They've been misled by all arenas of the modern "Christian" life: church leaders, media like books magazines tracts and music, it's all around us! How ever did WE find a way out of that? Mind boggling.

Matt
--- End quote ---

Matt I'll answer your rhetorical question.  Jesus dragged us out. 

For me, He dragged me out by causing me to be brought to my knees by my own sin.  That, on top of the condemnation I felt for my sin.  The church answer was always just stop.  Free will your self to stop sinning.  It's all your fault.  The fact that I could not stop on top of the condemnation for not stopping was too much to bear.  I was doing everything in my power to stop and I was helpless.   I was so utterly weak and helpless to defeat sin that I desperately wanted to defeat.  He humiliated me and broke me.  I am the weak of the world. 

On top of that, I had confusion and sort of schizophrenia about free will vs pre-destination.  These ideas continually preoccupied my thoughts and I would go down the logical implications of freewill and predestination so far until I lost the thread of logic only to take it up time and again. 

My mind and will were both being humiliated.  I could not stop sinning using my will and I could not solve the freewill vs. predestination 'problem'.  I surely would have committed suicide eventually, had He not stepped in finally and helped me.

bambam:

--- Quote ---On top of that, I had confusion and sort of schizophrenia about free will vs pre-destination.  These ideas continually preoccupied my thoughts and I would go down the logical implications of freewill and predestination so far until I lost the thread of logic only to take it up time and again. 

--- End quote ---

aktikt,
    It's interesting for you to mention the whole free-will vs pre-destination topic because that is the very thing that ultimately caused me to beg God to show me the truth!!  It was making me absolutely crazy.  I began to study the original Greek words and kept coming to the conclusion that God is definitely choosing certain people for something, but I couldn't believe that He was sending people to hell.  It broke my heart and buried me under a pile of anger at God for being this way.  Then I started begging and I am so thankful that He began to bring me to the truth.  I feel like I can breathe knowing that God is in COMPLETE control over everything right down to the very number of hairs on my head-I am in awe!

Beth

aktikt:
Beth,

It is amazing isn't it.  And like Ray says, the answer to our problem is not even in the same universe as the question.  There is no freewill and predestination problem because there is no freewill. 

Once Ray convinced me, using the Scriptures, that there was no freewill, I knew immediately that there was no hell.  Surely God would not send anyone to hell if they had no free will. 

God bless you,
Josh

mari_et_pere:
Josh, that was an awesome mini-testemonial there! I felt that way for a while. The truth is like losing weight or body building; you have to go through hardships and pain to achieve what you want (or need.) I know that's a terrible analogy but it's the best I could come up with.  ??? ::)

Joh 16:12  “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
[I suppose back then we wouldn't have been able to bear, or even understand, what we now know. Taking tha even further, I imagine that sometime in the future, I'll know things then that I "cannot bear...now."]

Joh 16:13  However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Joh 16:14  He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.

Joh 16:33  These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
[Thank God that He allowed us to have that peace! The world may cause pain, but we can stand in good cheer because He indeed is mightier than anything the world can throw at me.]

Matt

CDJ:
Wow. All that can be added is "Thank you Lord"  :)

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