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Help with Luke12:45-48
berniekruger:
--- Quote ---Luk 12:45 But if that servant shall say in his heart: My Lord is long a coming; and shall begin to strike the men-servants and maid-servants, and to eat and to drink and be drunk:
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in the day that he hopeth not, and at the hour that he knoweth not: and shall separate him and shall appoint him his portion with unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, who knew the will of his lord and prepared not himself and did not according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not and did things worthy of stripes shall be beaten with few stripes. And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom they have committed much, of him they will demand the more.
--- End quote ---
Verse 46 states he will be separated (cut-off, cut in two) and appointed his portion with unbelievers.
This sounds like damnation.
In 47 the servant knew (viz. knew the rules but was not prepared) and was punished (many stripes)
In 48 the servant didn't know but received a lighter punishment.
Is this now to say, If we know and decide to "do our own thing" we can be cut off?
And if we know and are not prepared we will only receive a severe punishment?
Its all a bit confusing.
Luv to all
Kat:
Hi berniekruger,
Luk 12:45 But if that servant says in his heart, My lord delays his coming, and shall begin to beat the male servants and women servants, and to eat and drink and to be drunk,
Luk 12:46 the lord of that servant will come in a day when he does not expect, and at an hour when he does not know. And he will cut him apart, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
So the servant being spoken of here would be the elect.
In verse 45 you have the servant/elect who begins 'to beat' his fellow servants/elect, or maybe to afflict and cause trouble among the brethren. 'To be drunk' is not a good thing, it shows excesses.
Rom 16:17 "And I exhort you, brothers, to watch those making divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them."
Verse 46 says the Lord comes and the servant does not expect Him, because he has not been watching.
Mar 13:36 "lest He come suddenly and find you sleeping.
v. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all. Watch."
1Th 5:6 "so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober."
Verse 46 also is speaking of the return of Christ and the unfaithful servant will not be in the first resurrection, but will be raised to judgment with the rest of the world.
Luk 12:47 And that servant who knew his lord's will and did not prepare, nor did according to His will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
This is the same servant that was beating his brethren, getting drunk and not watching. His purging is going to be severe, many stripes, because of all he has to repent of.
Luk 12:48 But he not knowing, and doing things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For to whomever much is given, of him much shall be required. And to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
I think this 'not knowing' person has never had his eyes open to the truth, because of his ignorance and not intentionally defying the truth, he has less to be purged, few stripes.
As the last part of this verse indicates, if you are given much and I think this includes physical blessing as well as knowledge of the truth, he/she will have to answer to how he used what was given him.
Luk 12:49 I have come to send fire on the earth. And what will I do if it is already kindled?
This fire is judgment for the world in the white throne judgment and now for those few who are chosen.
Hope this is understandable :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Joey Porter:
I actually believe this is one of the strongest passages in the bible that speaks against eternal damnation. In verse 48 where it speaks of being beaten with few stripes - If you look at the Greek wording used there, it could literally mean "of time: short."
So he is making a clear contrast here between degrees of finite punishment. He doesn't say that the first servant will be beaten with infinite blows. And if the punishment was eternal, it would be infinite blows. But he is showing differences in severity and/or length of punishment.
CDJ:
Morning Bernie, hope you're well :-)
Once you cover all the current parts in the Lake of Fire Series, I believe most of these 'confusing' bits will make alot of sense - hence, that's why you'll see that people here at BT speak parallel to each other - 1 Truth, 1 Spirit :-) There's a few words and principals that need to be understood, which makes sense to these previously confusing bits. They're confusing, because of misunderstanding/mistranslation of words like damnation, destruction, love, hell, forever, everlasting, chastisement, lucifer, lost (also translated destruction), etc, etc...
Kat brought it across well. If you've been entrusted with much, not by your own choice, but by Him, the punishment/chastisement will be more severe if you waste it, as opposed to those who do not believe - that is the justice of the Lord. The parable of the talents parallels to this.
Spot on, Joey - it's against eternal damnation. Check out the Greek Septuagint (200BC) at Jonah 2:6 - it translates olam as aionios, and english and other languages translate it as meaning forever/everlasting (as we all know), yet Jonah was in the belly of the fish only 3 days and nights...
Walk strong :-)
PS: Bernie, whose your team this weekend? :-) Sharks or Bulls?
berniekruger:
CDJ
Divided on this, me Bulls, Son Sharks
For of those who do not know what this means, there is a rugby final Saturday called the super 14 teams from SA, Aus and NZ and this is the 1st time the final has been on SA turf.
Back to the discussion. Thanks for the replies. I can relate to the servant that knew and did was not prepared and the one who didn't know but the 1st example of this parable, the guy completely loses it and is similar to someone who comes to faith, gets to know the HS and God, then totally rejects viz the unpardonable sin and it says:-
shall separate him and shall appoint him his portion with unbelievers.
Sounds like this is finite!
As I mentioned Luke's writing are by comparison to the other gospels harder to understand. Whether the portion with unbelievers is "hell", eternal damnation, whatever; it doesn't say. Other translations like this
(BBE) The lord of that servant will come at a time when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not ready for him, and he will have him cut in two and will give him his part in the fate of those who have no faith;
What I am trying to see here, this guy "falls away", "rejects his salvation", "Denies God after knowing him" etc. and from this I see a separation from God
Here are all the translations I have
(GNB) then the master will come back one day when the servant does not expect him and at a time he does not know. The master will cut him in pieces and make him share the fate of the disobedient.
(GW) His master will return at an unexpected time. Then his master will punish him severely and assign him a place with unfaithful people.
(ISV) the master of that servant will come on a day when he doesn't expect him and at an hour that he doesn't know. Then his master will punish him severely and assign him a place with unfaithful people.
(KJV) The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
(LITV) the Lord of that slave will come in the day in which he does not expect, and in an hour which he does not know. And He will cut him apart and will put his portion with the unbelievers.
(MKJV) the lord of that servant will come in a day when he does not expect, and at an hour when he does not know. And he will cut him apart, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
(WEB) then the lord of that servant will come in a day when he isn't expecting him, and in an hour that he doesn't know, and will cut him in two, and place his portion with the unfaithful.
(Webster) The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him asunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
(WNT) that servant's Master will come on a day when he is not expecting Him and at an hour that he knows not of, and will punish him severely, and make him share the lot of the unfaithful.
(YLT) the lord of that servant will come in a day in which he doth not look for him , and in an hour that he doth not know, and will cut him off, and his portion with the unfaithful he will appoint.
Don't know if I am making sense ???
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