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Author Topic: Ecclesiastes 9:5  (Read 1777 times)

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eggi

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Ecclesiastes 9:5
« on: May 20, 2007, 03:16:06 PM »

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. (Ecc 9:5 KJV)

I heard someone say that this statement is not really true, seeing that "this is the wisdom of MAN under the sun", and NOT the wisdom of God. Also, the same kind of statements in Job are also the wisdom of MAN, he said. He said that only Job's friends said these kind of things, and they weren't telling the truth.

I checked it out and excuse me, but isn't JOB saying the following...:?

So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. (Job 14:12 KJV)
They shall go down to the bars of the pit, when our rest together is in the dust. (Job 17:16 KJV)


Well, then maybe JOB was lying too? This is another example of how the church is teaching that we shall not surely DIE. And the resurrection of the DEAD is not really necessary... Talk about taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy...

Any further observations?

God bless you all,
Eirik
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Hereís how to tell if you have faith; how do you liveÖ what do you doÖ what do you accomplish in lifeÖ what are your goalsÖ What is there about you that proves that you have this faith and belief inside of you? What?

YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Ecclesiastes 9:5
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2007, 04:12:27 PM »

Hi Eggi,

Well I have heard that the Writers of the NT (Greek Scriptures) were all sitting on top of a hill smoking Pot!  :o

So I guess anything is possible...NOT!!  ;D

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.  

Isn't it strange, when such as these read the above, they point to US.  :D :D

They will one day see.....

Love in Christ,
Darren
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Ecclesiastes 9:5
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2007, 04:32:01 PM »

Hello Eirik

LOF part 2 fits here I believe 8)

THEY SPEAK WITH FORKED - ED TONGUE

Most all Christian theologians would claim to believe the first statement of Scriptural Truth that I present below, especially when I cite a Scripture verse with it, but they will then contradict and refuse to teach the second statement of Truth. Here are a few examples:

Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mansí works, but not the man himself? Yes.

But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.

Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.

But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.

Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.

But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over manís supposed "free" will? No.

Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.

Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.

But do they teach the truth therefore that menís souls are moral and not immortal? No.

Do they believe that the original manuscripts of Godís Word were inerrant? Yes.

But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.

Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.

But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.

Do they believe there are many cults today that need exposing? Yes.

But do they teach that Christendom, by its OWN definitions, is also a cult? No.

Do they believe that Sodom is "suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.

But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.

Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.

But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.

Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that "For as in Adam ALL die?" Yes.

But do they teach the last half, "even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?" No.

Do they believe that "...the end of the world [Gk: ion -- age]" ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.

But do they teach that this same "ion -- age" in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.

Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.

But do they teach this truth that "NO man," including David, has gone to heaven? No.

Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.

But do they teach that Godís "will" to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.

Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die?" Yes.

But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.

Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.

But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called "inerrant" King James Bible contained four-teen such books, including "Tobit," "Judith," "The idole Bel and the Dragon"? No.

Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.

But do they teach that "no man can" come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.

Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.

But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan "sinned from the beginning?" No.

Do they believe Christ really died for the sins of the world? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ was dead when they placed Him in the tomb? No.

Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to "sleep?" Yes.

But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, "sleeping" till resurrection? No.

Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.

But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.

Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.

But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.

Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.

But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.

Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes

But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.

Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.

But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.

Do they believe that Godís love will never fail (I Cor. 13:8)? Yes.

But do they teach that Godís love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.

Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.

But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.

Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christís parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.

But do they teach that Christ purposely didnít want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.

Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.

But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.

Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.

But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.

Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.

But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.

There seems to be no end to the Scriptural contradictions of Christian beliefs. But we can learn from their mistakes. It is good for us that God makes us dig deep for the precious gems of His word. It really is like searching for hidden treasure. And I have never found a hidden treasure in Godís Word that has disappointed me. Each new discovery brings more appreciation for God and His plan of salvation for all.


Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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hart4god

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Re: Ecclesiastes 9:5
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2007, 11:56:15 AM »

Arcturus:

that was an awesome and inspiring summary.

I guess the only thing I can say is that for my 20 years in harlotville, I became very good at suspending disbelief since I knew all those contradictions existed. I just didn't have a clue how to reconcile it all.

Previously I was a Catholic child so maybe the brainwashing that I was incapable of understanding the Scriptures had something to do with it.

anyhow-
I found your summary very edifying at a time I really needed it.
thanks.
judie h.
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mari_et_pere

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Re: Ecclesiastes 9:5
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2007, 12:22:58 PM »

Quote
so maybe the brainwashing that I was incapable of understanding the Scriptures had something to do with it.

I totally know what you mean! Also, not only do some get brainwashed into thinking that we are incapable of understanding the scriptures, some are also brainwashed into a certain theological box where scriptures can only be understood in a certain way, which is the wrong way of course. That's me. I was taught that hell meant hell, everlasting meant forever with no end, blah blah blah. Why my teachers didn't go back to the original greek to find the right word is beyond me. But yeah, I totally know what you mean.

Matt
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